B-25 weapons thread

CATCH 22 · Nov 18, 2021

Micdrow said:
Humm, ok, never new that. Source I got them from both said Russian LOL. So that is a surprise. Renamed file and many thanks. Guess I have one now of Dutch, Soviet, British and RAAF on the B-25.

Thank you for those though! I have never seen a Dutch manual before. And not this Russian one. The latter is interesting (it's a Pilot's manual) because combines information about all B-25 types - from C to J as I understand. What I could check just going trough the first few pages is that they distinguish 5 different groups of "Mitchells" (see page 3) depending on blocks and serials. I don't remember seen such comparison before. The differences between these groups are in the table on pages 4 and 5. Younger readers than I would probably say: "Cooooool!"
Cheers!

Micdrow · Nov 19, 2021

Micdrow said:
Humm, ok, never new that. Source I got them from both said Russian LOL. So that is a surprise. Renamed file and many thanks.

CATCH 22 said:
Thank you for those though! I have never seen a Dutch manual before. And not this Russian one. The latter is interesting (it's a Pilot's manual) because combines information about all B-25 types - from C to J as I understand. What I could check just going trough the first few pages is that they distinguish 5 different groups of "Mitchells" (see page 3) depending on blocks and serials. I don't remember seen such comparison before. The differences between these groups are in the table on pages 4 and 5. Younger readers than I would probably say: "Cooooool!"
Cheers!

No problem hope they are of some use

Micdrow · Nov 29, 2021

Happened to run across this one on face book. Note the single blister gun under the wing. You don't see this mod to often. I think its like only the 3rd or 4th photo I have seen with this modification

Wurger · Nov 29, 2021

Micdrow · Mar 27, 2022

I found this interesting with the RAAF.

Micdrow · May 6, 2022

Found this on Facebook, never seen it before. According to caption it was war time skip bombing practice on Lake Issaquena near Clemson University in South Carolina.

MIflyer · May 6, 2022

Such low level bombing tests and training flights were carried out of a number of lakes in SC, including the much larger Lake Murray near Columbia SC. Columbia Army Air Field was the primary B-25 training base. Such missions proved to be somewhat hazardous and there an estimated 25 B-25's in Lake Murray. Another was retrieved from Lake Greenwood in the 1980's and restored for display; it is now the mascot for the Columbia baseball team.

The Lake Greenwood B-25 ended up there because girls would sun themselves on the dock and when airplanes flew over low would take off their tops and wave them. Very low flying requires concentration without distractions.

Wurger · May 6, 2022

CATCH 22 · May 6, 2022

MIflyer said:
Such low level bombing tests and training flights were carried out of a number of lakes in SC, including the much larger Lake Murray near Columbia SC. Columbia Army Air Field was the primary B-25 training base. Such missions proved to be somewhat hazardous and there an estimated 25 B-25's in Lake Murray. Another was retrieved from Lake Greenwood in the 1980's and restored for display; it is now the mascot for the Columbia baseball team.

The Lake Greenwood B-25 ended up there because girls would sun themselves on the dock and when airplanes flew over low would take off their tops and wave them. Very low flying requires concentration without distractions.

View attachment 667137

I vividly remember the Lake Murray B-25C and the operations around her salvaging. This was the time when I started my in depth research about everything connected with this amazing a/c.
MIflyer, your photo shows B-25A or B-25 from the 17-th BG (M). As we know the group was the first to use the B-25 operationally. They started at March Filed (CA) and moved to McChord Field (WA) and Pendleton (OR) to fly antisubmarine patrols. Later the group moved to Lexington County Airport (SC) and to Barksdale (LA).
Crews from 17th BG. trained at Columbia AAF for the Doolittle raid but they used B-25B. If the above photo is from Columbia, it proves that they had the older models with them as well. Or was Lexington their official base but in fact they were in Columbia? (I don't know what was the distance between the 2 airfields in 1942).
I have another photo with a "mixed formation" B-25s from the 17-th BG. (two B-25B and one B-25A) during a patrol flight over the Pacific (as it is known to me).

Cheers!

Maty12 · May 6, 2022

MIflyer said:
Such low level bombing tests and training flights were carried out of a number of lakes in SC, including the much larger Lake Murray near Columbia SC. Columbia Army Air Field was the primary B-25 training base. Such missions proved to be somewhat hazardous and there an estimated 25 B-25's in Lake Murray. Another was retrieved from Lake Greenwood in the 1980's and restored for display; it is now the mascot for the Columbia baseball team.

The Lake Greenwood B-25 ended up there because girls would sun themselves on the dock and when airplanes flew over low would take off their tops and wave them. Very low flying requires concentration without distractions.

View attachment 667137

I wonder if the props in the photo are black or maroon. The B-25s in TSOT had their props and cowlings painted with historically accurate 17th BG markings, but that footage is also in black and white, so it's hard to tell

CATCH 22 · May 6, 2022

Maty12 said:
I wonder if the props in the photo are black or maroon. The B-25s in TSOT had their props and cowlings painted with historically accurate 17th BG markings, but that footage is also in black and white, so it's hard to tell

I personally know of only one propeller's colour for all B-25s (accepted by the USAAC/USAAF): black.
Check this photo (AFAIK it's an original colour photo from the period, not colorized in modern days). This is a B-25A, s/n 40-2200:

MIflyer · May 6, 2022

CATCH 22 said:
Or was Lexington their official base but in fact they were in Columbia? (I don't know what was the distance between the 2 airfields in 1942).

Columbia Army Airfield, now Columbia Metropolitan Airport, is in Lexington County. There is no other airport around there. The original Columbia Airport is Owens Field, within Columbia City limits, a mile or so away from where I used to live.

Yes, those are A models, while the Doolittle Raiders had B models. My high school math and mechanical drawing teacher was bomb/Nav on Plane No. 10 on the Doolittle Raid.

Maty12 · May 6, 2022

CATCH 22 said:
I personally know of only one propeller's colour for all B-25s (accepted by the USAAC/USAAF): black.
Check this photo (AFAIK it's an original colour photo from the period, not colorized in modern days). This is a B-25A, s/n 40-2200:
View attachment 667207

Interesting! You rarely see the long "silver sleeves" (unpainted part of the blades near the hub) combined with black. I guess they mixed and matched tech orders.

CATCH 22 · May 6, 2022

Maty12 said:
Interesting! You rarely see the long "silver sleeves" (unpainted part of the blades near the hub) combined with black. I guess they mixed and matched tech orders.

Don't be fooled by restored a/cs, their colours or appearance today differ. "Miss Hap" is far from the original and we all know that. Thanks God she still exists, but the original was a completely different a/c (different looking I mean):

As for the propeller blades, I believe only B-25, B-25A and some early B-25B had "long sleeves" as you call it. I have no reference when exactly did the "style" change but it was within the B-model. But they were never "maroon". BTW where do you have this information from?
On some photos the matt black colour looks a bit "warmer", but it was black.

Maty12 · May 6, 2022

CATCH 22 said:
Don't be fooled by restored a/cs, their colours or appearance today differ. "Miss Hap" is far from the original and we all know that. Thanks God she still exists, but the original was a completely different a/c (different looking I mean):

As for the propeller blades, I believe only B-25, B-25A and some early B-25B had "long sleeves" as you call it. I have no reference when exactly did the "style" change but it was within the B-model. But they were never "maroon". BTW where do you have this information from?
On some photos the matt black colour looks a bit "warmer", but it was black.

I don't have any sources on specific propeller colors of B-25s, just one about USAAF propellers in general, being this blogpost with references:
Maroon 18 and the USAAC and USAAF

"To prevent glare, the face side of the propeller blades may be coated with antiglare. This coating extends from the 18-inch, or 24-inch station, as necessary, to the tip. Maroon lacquer is preferred, but if not available, maroon enamel is used. (Technical Manual - Aircraft Propellers dated January 5, 1941.)"

"Sometime after December 1941, a directive was issued to paint the whole blade black."

I cannot comment on the accuracy of this information, though I used it as a reference when painting my own model P-40. My understanding before this conversation was that the phases of USAAF propellers were: unpainted metal -> unpainted but with maroon anti-glare (specifically only until the 18" or 24" station, thus creating the "sleeves") -> fully black -> black with yellow tips.

Incidentally, I do wonder how the painting tech orders fit in with the Doolittle Raid B-25Bs. My understanding is that they received new propellers before shipping out, and those were painted fully black (including the spinners) for camouflage, with no yellow tips, and that the colorful cowlings were overpainted with olive drab and/or neutral grey for the same reason. I always figured this was a decision made for the raid, but perhaps it was based on the intermediate tech orders.

MIflyer · May 6, 2022

Here are some more B-25A shots as well as a illustration, from the Profile publication. Note all show the bare armed prop blades but that the photo above of my HS teacher and his crew on board the USS Hornet shows the whole prop black, including the dome.

Micdrow · May 7, 2022

I pulled this from the Preliminary Handbook of Overhaul instructions for B-25, B-25A and B-25B Bombardment Airplanes showing colors of plane.

fubar57 · May 7, 2022

Interesting, lemon-yellow

Micdrow · May 7, 2022

fubar57 said:
Interesting, lemon-yellow

Here you go George, the star by the lemon yellow from the document. Also more from the manual on prop painting. Both quoted below from same manual above.

Wurger · May 7, 2022

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