Beginner mistakes. Need enamel paint advice.

[Whiteyb]

I typically use testors enamel paint. So when I bought the revell stuka ju 87g-1 tank buster I was given era accurate paints from Humbrol. I can't get the paint to, paint.. it looks like garbage. Can anyone help me understand what I'm doing wrong?

 

[nsmekanik]

I haven't read much good about Humbrol enamels to start with, so it may not be you. If you are doing what you've been doing with Testors it may be that you need to change your application. I assume you are using a hairy stick and it may be that you are either not thinning it enough or not waiting long enough between coats, or maybe a bit of both. From what I see in the pic it kinda looks like you are more or less not waiting long enough between coats or the paint isn't curing in a reasonable amount of time. This is assuming you are not trying to cover it in one application.

 

[at6]

I'd say both not waiting long enough and too thick. That's why I use an airbrush now. Can't hairy stick worth a d*mn anymore.

 

[nsmekanik]

There was nothing like the older Humbrols for brush painting I think, now I'm like you and couldn't get a decent finish with a brush these days, although there's a few experts out there that are pretty slick with a hairy stick it seems.

 

[Wurger]

Of what scale is your Ju-87?

Applying Humbrols with a brush at quite large surfaces was always a trouble. A such surface should be divided into a couple smaller areas. But even though, the final finish may be different from the one we expect. I'm not sure but it seems you didn't prepare the model for painting properly. I can still see the seams and scratches. Also I think you applied the darker colour as the first one overal and then you painted the lighter coat. Please , correct me if I'm wrong. I noticed you used the masking tape to limit the areas and get the straight demarcation lines for colours. IMHO it is one of mistakes you made. Humbrol enamels don't "like" a such way of applying. It is because the thickness of their coats is clearly noticed. Therefore the colours have to be applied individually one next to another but not one on another. Additionally if you want to get a nice transition between two colours the masking tape should be removed as soon as the paint was applied. In the way the edge will get a better shape almost without the well seen step.
Secondly , the Humbrols have to be stired accurately, not only by shaking the entire can but also with a stick in the can. Please don't thin Humbrols in their cans. If you need to mix them with a thinner use a separate can for that.
Thirdly, if the first layer of the paint doesn't cover the surface well you need to apply the second coat. But I would suggest waiting a couple of days before that because the second coat shold be thinned a little bit more than the paint for the first one.
Fourthly, the clear gloss coat for decals should cause the better appearance of the painted surface.
Finally , for painting of quite large areas use quite thick flat brushes of soft bristle.

I hope it can help a little bit.

Here two my 1/72 scale models of Spitfire and Bf-109 painted with a brush and Humbrols. All models without the clear gloss and matt finish

 

[fubar57]

I have totally given up on Humbrol. Once they changed paint manufacturers years ago the paint turned to crap. They paint would never dry, would never mix properly or was just a solid lump. Go to any modelling site and you will hear the same complaints. Not sure if its improved since then but the problem is, you never know how long the paint has been sitting on the store shelf so you may be getting oldest good, old bad or new good

 

[Airframes]

Agree with all.
I've been using Humbrol for 55+ years, but since the factory closed a few years ago, the stuff ranges from fairly good to not fit for purpose, especially some of the greens.
Stir, stir, stir, then put a little in a mixing pallet eg. a coffee jar lid and add a brush tip of thinners, and stir again. Apply evenly, in one coat, in one direction only, let it dry for at least 12 hours, then check it.
If totally dry, i.e. not slightly tacky, a second, similar coat can be applied if required.
I.m now changing to WEM paints now through sovereign hobbies as their colourcoat range, and also going back to Xrtracolor gloss, with the required matt clear coat.

 

[Crimea_River]

The fact that even Terry gave up on Humbrol should tell you something!

 

[mikewint]

Terry (Airframes) is one of the Masters of the Enamel and can produce a brushed finish better than my airbrush. That being said, what are your goals for this model? Do you want it to look like a BMW/Mercedes fresh off the assembly line or a well used actual combat aircraft? ANY warcraft maintained in the field in actual combat is going to look raggedy-bass in a very short time. Field mechanics don't use spectrometers to match paints. Most of us spend a great deal of time ageing/weathering our models to that well-used and dirty appearance. You only have the one pic but for a well-used warcraft it looks pretty good.
All that being said I am not a fan of enamels or of using a Hairy-Stick (Love that term, bye the bye) and I hate/will not use Lacquers.
I don't use Humbrol paints and only use enamels/brushes to paint small parts. I personally prefer Model Master paints and I'm an inveterate acrylic paint user. However as most here will point out Acrylic do not brush well so if you are wedded to the Hairy-Stick, acrylics are not the way to go. However IMHO the way to a nice smooth professional finish is to switch to an airbrush and don't look back.
Enamel solvents like Mineral Spirits are relatively innocuous in use. Various manufacturers however add various substances to their enamels so #1 I'm a strong believer in using the manufacturers solvent for thinning the paint and reserve Mineral Spirits for brush cleaning.
Next - Enamels don't DRY, in the strictest sense, they cure (form chemical bonds) over a period of time. Now the solvent does have to vaporize for that bonding to occur AND that vaporization occurs at the surface of the paint. Thus the top surface will skin-over first and any other vaporization has to occur through that ever thickening layer of cured paint. So curing is a process that takes longer and longer. Thus several thin, light coats of paint are better than one thick, heavy coat. A paint may feel "dry" to the touch but is generally far from cured. Give your paint at least 24 hours (dependent on temp and humidity) to "dry" to the touch then handle gently for another day or two.
Lacquers with their "Hot" solvents vaporize very quickly and those "Hot" solvents actually eat a bit into the plastic so a very strong bond is formed between the plastic and the covering paint layer. The downside to lacquers is the nastyness/health hazards of those solvents which enter the air you are breathing. In addition manufactures constantly alter the composition of their solvent as the market prices of the various components change. So the same companies June Solvent could be totally different than their August solvent.

 

[vandee]

I am still looking for a decent paint to brush paint cockpits and wheel well areas. I used Testors Model Masters but that
went south a few years ago. They either dry up or turn to a jelly like mass. I switched to Humbrol last year and
just had a tin of that turn to a jelled mass. Whats up with these paints lately? Is Pactra still around? John

 

[mikewint]

Pactra is a Testors brand just like Model Master so not sure what changes you expect. NO paint lid is ever going to be air-tight. Solvent vapor pressures are such that a certain amount of solvent is going to escape over time which then allows the paint components to begin bonding.
When I am not actively painting and/or working on a model my Model Master - Tamiya - Vallejo acrylic paints are stored in small groups in double seal heavy duty plastic freezer bags in a small dorm-sized refrigerator set at a cool, not cold, temperature 7-8C
That minimizes solvent loss and slows chemical bond formation. Bottom line is you can't store paints for months at a time under varying temps/pressures/humidity conditions and not expect some changes to occur

 

[fubar57]

I've got 15yrs+ on 3/4 empty Tamiya, Polly Scale and Vallejo paints. I just sprayed a bottle of Tamiya so old it had no label, multiple vice grip marks on the lid and had to be held under the hot water tap for almost a minute to get it open with vice grips. I was able to get 4ml of paint out of it and officially called it dead. These are all stored on my table or a shelf

 

[Whiteyb]

Thanks everyone for your response. After many times trying the humbrol on this particular model I'm going to give up. I believe that the paint is just bad, which was my assumption. Trust me I'm no expert painter by any means and I'm quite the beginner . But last night shortly after I made the original post I gave the right wing a flat clear (tamiya ts-80) and the paint bubbled up. As to answer a few questions asked: I model in the scale if 1:48. yes I have an electric paint mixer. Yes I tried thinning the humbrol paint. Yes I tried small sections at a time. No I didn't primer the body first. And yes I want my models to have a weathering look for the most part. Here are a few models I'm currently working on. Thanks guys for everything and I look forward to exploring this wonderful forum!

 

[fubar57]

Nice. Although I paint with 98% acrylics, I do have some enamels. I choose this not because of health reason but for ease of clean-up; I have yet to run enamels through my airbrush. I like enamels for small parts like levers and switches as I feel they cover the best using minimum brush work. For acrylics I like Tamiya but would prefer not to have to mix so many colours. I love Gunze Sangyo or whatever they call it now but almost impossible to get in Canada. Really leaning towards building up my Vallejo Model Air collection, great colours but a bit finicky if you try to rush it. There was a colour quality issue when they first came out but it was corrected. Having said that, one has to be careful because dealers may have old stock. I'm looking forward to trying MiG paint and Mission Models paint; I've heard good things about them

 

[mikewint]

Another thought which occurred to me is/was the "cleanliness" of the plastic model pieces. Injection molding utilizes compounds known as mold-release agents which as their name implies aid in the release of the plastic part from the forming mold. The plastic pieces in the box can still retain varying amounts of this release agent. The very first thing that I do to a kit is to wash/soak all the plastic trees in water and some Dawn detergent followed by a through rinse.
These release agents can interfere with paint adhesion.
I personally do not use a primer though some will swear by their use.

Going back to paint storage the prime determining factor is eliminating gas exchange into and out of the bottle and that relates mostly to the condition of the bottle seal. Keep the cap, bottle seal, and bottle threads clean and it can be stored for a very long time. Now a jar that is mostly empty contains a lot of air and gasses expand and contract a lot as temperatures vary. That expansion and contraction place stresses on the seal. So once again limit temperature swings. If some paint should still find it's way to the outside anyway, be sure to completely clean the threads before re-capping. Gunked-up threads don't seal well and can make opening very difficult. As a general rule I've often heard that properly stored acrylics will last 10 years and alkyd enamels, as Geo pointed out, 15 years. Both types can "skin over" after long term storage. That does not mean that the paint is bad, just remove the skin. The paint below the skin should be fine though probably require some thinning.

 

[Whiteyb]

Fubar57: well in my short experience and research I plan to switch to using acrylic and looking into a compressor for future airbrushing large body coverings. I'm not going to abandon brushing or enamel as they can potentially have a beautiful out come. Another topic I wish to discuss is enamel thinners. Idk if I can talk about it in this thread as it's not labeled for thinners. Mikewint: thanks so much for your input on paint storage and I fully agree with you and will start using these methods. And everyone else whom is sharing awesome advice I commend thy!

 

[vandee]

The changes I expect are a paint that lasts more than a month than dries up or jells. I understand
your explanation of the chemistry but all I want is something that lasts a bit longer than a month.
I do a lot of brush painting on small to medium areas and have had bad experiences with acrylic.
Tamiya reminds me of my water color painting in the first grade. I have tried Vallejo though and it
seems a lot better than Tamiya. So I guess to use Vallejo you squirt a small amount on a pallet or a
small plastic container or lid? I am use to using Testors or Model Masters bottles but can adapt. I guess
I could try like Bob Ross does but don't have the talent he does with"happy little trees". I do like the way
Vallejo paints seal.....no messy cap or threads and I really don't trust tins. Anyone make enamels in the
Vallejo style tubes? John

 

[fubar57]

I one of these for Vallejo, dirt cheap. Vallejo Model Color is best for brush painting though I have no trouble brushing with Model Air. I have also sprayed Model Color using a 50/50 mix with water and it sprays great...

 

[Whiteyb]

I one of these for Vallejo, dirt cheap. Vallejo Model Color is best for brush painting though I have no trouble brushing with Model Air. I have also sprayed Model Color using a 50/50 mix with water and it sprays great...

View attachment 550799​

I need one of these but my hobby shop doesn't carry these for some reason. Also if I go to a hardware store what particular thinner would I use for enamel paint? There are many types.. so confusing

 

[vandee]

Thanks, that's what I thought. I have 2 17ml bottles of Model Color by Vallejo. If it does require thinning for
brushing what do you use? Also is it a soap and water( touch of Dawn in cup of water) clean up. I will give
anything a try rather than spending $$$ every month for the same color. John