best allied tank?

[schwarzpanzer]

P38, you may be interested in the M12 (155mm based on a Sherman chassis).

The most powerful American Sherman was the M4A3E8 'Easy Eight' with 76mm cannon, wet stowage and HVSS (Horizontal Volute Suspension).

Well, it depends:

Gun

Firefly or M12

Armour

E2 'Jumbo'

Mobility

E8

You've always got wet stowage though. I'd plump for the Firefly.

The Cromwell was designed as an improvement on the Cruiser types that the British used.

It was, look at the Crusader it replaced or the crappy Covenator etc.

Replacing the Liberty with the Meteor is what did it.

the OQF 77mm (adaptation of the OQF 17pdr) which wasn't that much weaker than the 17pdr.

Yes, it wasn't bad, had a faster reload but will have started lacking more @ longer ranges IIRC?

 

[plan_D]

The M12 wasn't a tank, it was a GMC. How can you put that in the same competition as a tank for firepower? Come on, let's be serious, it's not in the same field as the tank - it's mobile artillery. You would compare it to the M7, M40 and such. And the Firefly wasn't in American service, notice I stated, "Most powerful American Sherman..." I will give the M4A3E2 as the most heavily armoured Sherman.


So, the M4A3E8 was the most powerful American Sherman on the combination of armour, firepower and mobility. Due to the simple fact, the M12 wasn't a tank, Firefly wasn't American, M4A3E2 lackes mobility and firepower.

The Covenator was never replaced by the Cromwell, it remained the British training tank until 1943. As it never did see operational service - it couldn't be replaced by an operational tank that was needed for frontline service.

The Cromwell replaced the Centaur! That's where "Replacing the Liberty with the Meteor is what did it." comes in. It was the improvement in the Cruiser series, yes, but it replaced the Centaur. Centaur (A27L) and Cromwell (A27M) ...see? I wonder what the letters mean...

The OQF 77mm lacked the power of the OQF 17pdr through all ranges but only slightly. It was more powerful than all those British tank cannons before it.

 

[P38 Pilot]

Ah yes! The good old M12 Longtom! Yes i am very familar with this combination of a mobile artilley peice and firepower! That 155mm gun was very useful into knocking down German buildings during the war.

I would have hated to have been on the recieving side of it....

 

[plan_D]

How is that combination? "...mobile artillery piece and firepower..." That's the whole idea of a SPG - it's a mobile gun. And the M40 was larger ...

 

[102first_hussars]

Hands down the Stalin KV Tank and The T-34.

 

[plan_D]

I assume you mean, the Stalin, KV and T-34. Which would be ...three tanks, not one.

And then there's the IS-1 and IS-2 (IS-3 not included, didn't see service.), KV-1, KV-1s, KV-2 and KV-85 (Not all included, don't waste my time), T-34/76 and T-34/85 ...

Which would ultimately make it eight tanks ...not one.

 

[102first_hussars]

First Off dont be so bitter, your not the center of this whole site so I didnt post specifacly for you and I didnt post delibaratley to ruin your day.

And the Is-2 is the Stalin Tank, and the Is-2 was a development of the KV series Tanks hense, Like The Tiger was a development of The Panzer.

The Is-2 was only designated with the Is not the Kv because it was alighter tank. And excuse my error with my last post I did meen T-34/76.

 

[schwarzpanzer]

The M12 wasn't a tank, it was a GMC. How can you put that in the same competition as a tank for firepower? Come on, let's be serious, it's not in the same field as the tank - it's mobile artillery.

I thought of that when I posted, if it doesn't count, it doesn't count.

the Firefly wasn't in American service, notice I stated, "Most powerful American Sherman

Did you? All right then.

I will give the M4A3E2 as the most heavily armoured Sherman.

2nd most heavily armoured tank in WW2 I believe? (After the Maus 8) )

So, the M4A3E8 was the most powerful American Sherman on the combination of armour, firepower and mobility. Due to the simple fact, the M12 wasn't a tank, Firefly wasn't American, M4A3E2 lackes mobility and firepower.

Yes, though I think an early Super-Sherman maybe saw WW2 service?


Yes as a trainer the Covenator was OK.


I thought the Centaur never really saw service, like the Challenger?

(It did, but didn't)

Anyway the Centaur was designed for the Meteor and most, if not all were retrofitted with the Meteor anyway.

I wonder what the letters mean...

Liberty, Meteor, but I guess it's a sarcey question?

The OQF 77mm lacked the power of the OQF 17pdr through all ranges but only slightly.

I guess that as the range increased, so did the performance difference?

How is that combination? "...mobile artillery piece and firepower..." That's the whole idea of a SPG - it's a mobile gun.

The JagTiger and your favorite; the Elefant weren't really that mobile.

And the M40 was larger ...

Yes, did they all have HVSS?

And then there's the IS-1 and IS-2 (IS-3 not included, didn't see service.)

The IS3 may have seen service, the IS1 didn't IIRC.

First Off dont be so bitter, your not the center of this whole site so I didnt post specifacly for you and I didnt post delibaratley to ruin your day.

Go on fella!

He's actually alright today though.

And the Is-2 is the Stalin Tank, and the Is-2 was a development of the KV series Tanks

I thought you meant that, to me Stalin allways means IS2(incl M)

Like The Tiger was a development of The Panzer.

Did you know that the steering of the Tiger was developed by the bloke who owned Aston Martin?

David Brown hence; DB5, DB7, DB9 etc.

The Is-2 was only designated with the Is not the Kv because it was alighter tank.

It was quite different as it used torsion bar suspension plus many, many other differences. I think 100% was changed - effectively making it a whole new tank.

And excuse my error with my last post I did meen T-34/76.

I'm not bothered if you included the T34/85 personally.


For importance, rather than performance, I've narrowed it down to 1 for each nation except USSR:

UK

MatildaII

USA

M3 Prototype

USSR

T34, KV, IS all roughly equal?

 

[102first_hussars]

Did you know that the steering of the Tiger was developed by the bloke who owned Aston Martin?

David Brown hence; DB5, DB7, DB9 etc.
No I didnt know that, thats pretty interesting.

"And excuse my error with my last post I did meen T-34/76"

I was only apoligizing to Pd to show everybody what a jerk he was being thats all.

 

[P38 Pilot]

How is that combination? "...mobile artillery piece and firepower..." That's the whole idea of a SPG - it's a mobile gun. And the M40 was larger ...

I still like the M12 alot better. And it was a deadly combination because before you knew it 155mm shells were blowing the hell out of your enviroment and your only Panzer Squad!

 

[schwarzpanzer]

I was only apoligizing to Pd to show everybody what a jerk he was being thats all.

Yes he takes Pedantry way too far, but I've seen others act like that with him (me included ) perhaps in retaliation?

BTW: He doesn't like his own medicine.


I know it's not strictly Allied, but...

Personally I'd like to have seen a V2 mounted on a Tiger.

There were some serious tanks/projects though the SturmTiger and JagdMaus.

A SturmTiger apparently killed 3+ Shermans in one shot!! 8)

The V2 was used in the Bulge IIRC?


The best SPG's of WW2 have to be the (I)SU152 and SU100 though. 8)

The Katyuska also. 8)

The Crusader AA and T77 MGMC were great FlakPanzers too.

 

[plan_D]

Haha - reading all that made me laugh. And ...hussars, I am a jerk - haven't you gathered that?

And the Tiger was developed from "The Panzer" - and what exactly would "The Panzer" be refering to? Panzer means armour - which would mean, the Tiger was developed from "...the armour...".

 

[schwarzpanzer]

I think he means the family resemblance that's all.

 

[102first_hussars]

comin straight from a German Pd cant argue with that

 

[schwarzpanzer]

English-German actually, though that doesn't stop me from being wrong.

The VK projects may interest you, there was info on achtungpanzer, but the site seems screwy.

The Tiger had it's roots in 1936, but was deemed "unnecessary" - even though a Russian inspector, when showed the latest PzIV said "That isn't the heaviest tank you've got??". Guderian saw it coming...

 

[102first_hussars]

Achtung-Panzer, (Attention Armour?)

 

[schwarzpanzer]

Bang on!

Here is the link: (with sub-links)

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm

- but there are no photos

There is a book (in English) on the Maus that also has a lot of info/photos of the VK/DW project and Ferd Porche, well worth getting though I couldn't find it on Canadian Amazon.

I think Guderian was actually a huge supporter of the Tiger?
I think the great link parm gave had it in?

 

[102first_hussars]

Thats a pretty cool site, one question

What does Panzershrek and Panzerfaust mean in English, I know I spelled them wrong

 

[Nonskimmer]

"Faust" means fist, and I think "schreck" means terror or horror.

Well, German speakers?

 

[102first_hussars]

ah, thx