mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
My personal favourites are the Shack and the Nimrod, can the Gannet be included aswell?
best ASW aircraft of cold War
- Thread starter pbfoot
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hole in the ground
Airman
- 42
- Jun 26, 2006
[slaps head]
yes of course. Second Gannet simply because ok
yes of course. Second Gannet simply because ok
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
The Gannet was a good carrier ASW platform for short patrols.
- Thread starter
- #44
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
how can you compare the Shackleton to the Argus
Shackleton Argus
Range 6400km - 9500km
Endurance 14hr - 26.5hr
Payload 4500kg [ 5300kg
Max speed 439kph - 507kph
in other words the Argus go further stay longer carry more and it was faster
Shackleton Argus
Range 6400km - 9500km
Endurance 14hr - 26.5hr
Payload 4500kg [ 5300kg
Max speed 439kph - 507kph
in other words the Argus go further stay longer carry more and it was faster
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
The Shack was based on a plane designed in the earky 40s, it's an amazing plane for being in service as long as it has
- Thread starter
- #46
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
no doubt it was fine aircraft it just wasn't as capable as the Argusmosquitoman said:
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
you have to remember though that the Shack was also used as a bomber aircraft...........
My vote goes for the P-3 Orion.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The Russian Bear bomber in the ASW role was no slouch. It had a huge payload capability and lot sof room in the airframe for sensors.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
plan_D said:
I meant "has" not "had".
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
The soviet ASW platforms were capable but a generation behind te west. They painstakenly sought used sonobouys in an attempt to copy then and understand the "Julie Jezabel" and MAD systems used on most western ASW aircraft.
pshaas
Recruit
In the 1960's, the AN/AQA-5 (JEZEBEL) Indicator Group was in development at the Naval Air Development Center (Johnsville/Warminster) for eventual installation in the new P-3 aircraft. At the time, the Center had no P-3's available yet, and the AQA-5 gram-writer was just too physically large to get into any of our P2V Neptunes for tech-eval flights.
Enter the Argus. The Navy arrived at an agreement with Canada to run the necessary AQA-5 tech-eval flights on their Argus's. Working with the Canadian flight crews was great. We conducted quite a few test flights aboard the Argus out of Summerside, Prince Edward Island, and out of NAS Key West. The one down-side was that the Argus was SLOW. I particularly remember one round-robin out of Summerside: seven hours to the test site somewhere near Bermuda, four hours on-sta, and seven hours back. The longest of these flights was 21 hours, and I understand that the Argus's endurance is over 24 hrs (27?).
The first P-3 built for the Navy was BuNo 148883. Originally stationed at Pax River, it was soon transferred to NADC, where it was used for many years as a test-bed. Early on, even with that aircraft, we at NADC were still pinched for aircraft availablity. A super-constellation NC-121 radar picket aircraft stationed at the Center was being released from the TACAMO program, so we latched onto it, stripped the height-finder radome off, installed a complete P-3A sonobuoy launch package, and used it as a lab aircraft for several years. When deploying to some remote test area, it was large enough to be its own cargo aircraft, carrying pallet-loads of buoys for all the planned test flights. Well, it didn't have a built-in APU, so a ground-power unit would often be fork-lifted in through its cargo door for use at some of the remote fields. You know how stiff a ride the P-3 is; the Connie with its flexible wings rode like a '50's Buick. The biggest downside to that aircraft was how many engines it went through.
883 eventually returned to Pax, and I think it may now be on display there.
Enter the Argus. The Navy arrived at an agreement with Canada to run the necessary AQA-5 tech-eval flights on their Argus's. Working with the Canadian flight crews was great. We conducted quite a few test flights aboard the Argus out of Summerside, Prince Edward Island, and out of NAS Key West. The one down-side was that the Argus was SLOW. I particularly remember one round-robin out of Summerside: seven hours to the test site somewhere near Bermuda, four hours on-sta, and seven hours back. The longest of these flights was 21 hours, and I understand that the Argus's endurance is over 24 hrs (27?).
The first P-3 built for the Navy was BuNo 148883. Originally stationed at Pax River, it was soon transferred to NADC, where it was used for many years as a test-bed. Early on, even with that aircraft, we at NADC were still pinched for aircraft availablity. A super-constellation NC-121 radar picket aircraft stationed at the Center was being released from the TACAMO program, so we latched onto it, stripped the height-finder radome off, installed a complete P-3A sonobuoy launch package, and used it as a lab aircraft for several years. When deploying to some remote test area, it was large enough to be its own cargo aircraft, carrying pallet-loads of buoys for all the planned test flights. Well, it didn't have a built-in APU, so a ground-power unit would often be fork-lifted in through its cargo door for use at some of the remote fields. You know how stiff a ride the P-3 is; the Connie with its flexible wings rode like a '50's Buick. The biggest downside to that aircraft was how many engines it went through.
883 eventually returned to Pax, and I think it may now be on display there.
solnar
Airman
I was in the RAF in the late 70s to mid 80s and flew in both the Nimrod and P3. Both were good at what they were designed for but the Nimrod came out overall tops.
- Thread starter
- #55
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
I believe the Argus holds some sort of record for unrefuelled flight of 31 hours
Nonskimmer
Captain
Yep.
Canada's Air Force, Aircraft: Canadair CP-107 Argus
"An Argus flown by 407 Maritime Patrol Squadron held the record for the longest flight by an unrefuelled Aircraft, slightly over 31 hours. This record stood for almost twenty years until broken by a Rutan experimental Aircraft which circled the globe unrefuelled."
Also of some note:
"In September 1959, after a tour of Australia and New Zealand, the squadron established a Canadian distance record by flying from Hawaii to North Bay, approximately 4900 miles non-stop without carrying extra fuel or in-flight refueling. On 13/14 April 1960, 405 set a Maritime Command endurance record of 26 hours with a combat ready Aircraft."
From: 14 Wing - Squadrons Units - 405 Squadron - History
Basically beaten by itself then. Ah yes...the Aurora.
Aurora is the Greek goddess who restored Orion's eyesight.
Nonskimmer
Captain
From what I understand, the CP-140 Aurora is basically the P-3 Orion airframe fitted with the sensor suite of the S-3 Viking or something very similar. Or at least that's how it was in the beginning, during the early 1980's. As for changes over the years, if any, I wouldn't know. A few of them have had the ASW suite removed, and they're used primarily for coastal surveillance. They call those ones the CP-140A Arcturus. They look outwardly identical to the Aurora/Orion.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Actually the Arcturus were delivered with no ASW equipment and they were the last P-3s (CP-140s) produced in Palmdale CA. The initial 18 CP-140s were built in Burbank CA during the late 1970s and early 1980s. The CAF purchased 3 additional aircraft in the late 1980s and wanted them stripped. When completed they were ferried to IMP of Halifax NS who installed the interior. I was supposed to be the Lockheed rep there but decided 5 years out of country was enough.
Nonskimmer
Captain
Oh, I see. There you go.
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