Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......

[drgondog]

Do you think the Do-335 was the answer? Certainly had speed firepower and range.

But wasn't the Me-110 built for this type of combat? Was the Ju-88 heavy fighters ever used to take on unescorted bombers in daylight?

I Don't think the perfect answer exists in the context of WW2. The Germans really needed a MiG-15 type aircraft although the ideas were around at the time. If I recall the Ta-183 shared a likeness. An air to air guided missile would have been handy too.

The Ju88 was used in attempting to stop B-17s and B-24s in daylight when NJG units were pressed into service in late 1943. The Mustang and P-38s eliminated the practice in early to mid 1944.

Do 335 would have been formidable. Too few, waaaay too late

The 110 was originally a long range escort that was hammered in BoB - became the foundation for NJG fighters battling the RAF, pressed into service in 1943 against 8th AF, hammered again first by 47s, then 38s and 51s as the 110's pulled back out of range of 47's.

 

[Erich]

the revamped 262 and other jet projects were the wave of the future. Prop jobs were on their way out. The do 335 may have looked formidable but never flew on ops so it is all guesswork.

the NJG units 2 and 3 used the Ju 88C's for anti-bomber work, none of them with rockets only the Bf 110G-4 in limited amounts and of course the ZG's with the bomber killing Bf 110G-2, rockets, cannon in ZG 101, ZG 1, ZG 26 and ZG 76. As Bill pointed out were fodder for the storm drain in late 43 into spring of 44, but then a movement to Austria and used side by side with 109's of JG 27, this was heavy unit II./ZG 1 which had some success even into the summer of 44 against the 15th AF before the ZG was completely drained of a/c and reserves in men and then they were transferred into daylight Reich units. They were too cumbersome, slow, non-manueverable with Allied escorts and many times without any high protection staffeln of single engine fighters.

 

[Aussie1001]

you guys are nuts firstly the 262 was introduced so late in the war that it did jack to stop the bombers the ju88 was a very good aircraft at shooting down bombers and lanc i hate to point it out but the lancaster had no bottom turrent and when the ju88 was equiped with slanting music it devestated the english bombers although the bombers had no escort to help them at night either.....

 

[outremerknight]

My personal opinion is that the best bomber killer was the BF110 series.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

you guys are nuts firstly the 262 was introduced so late in the war that it did jack to stop the bombers

That was not there point. There point was its capability...

the ju88 was a very good aircraft at shooting down bombers and lanc i hate to point it out but the lancaster had no bottom turrent and when the ju88 was equiped with slanting music it devestated the english bombers

You might want to talk to Erich about this....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

My personal opinion is that the best bomber killer was the BF110 series.

Can you explain why? Because it was very outclassed and if there were escorts for the bombers the Bf 110s would be slaughtered.

 

[drgondog]

you guys are nuts firstly the 262 was introduced so late in the war that it did jack to stop the bombers the ju88 was a very good aircraft at shooting down bombers and lanc i hate to point it out but the lancaster had no bottom turrent and when the ju88 was equiped with slanting music it devestated the english bombers although the bombers had no escort to help them at night either.....

It's interesting how the word 'bomber' evokes different first images.. To a Japanese it would probably bring up a B-29, for which there was no 'night fighter' bomber killer for the mode of attack the B-29 used to burn out demand - but would think Shiden for daylight.

Your first reaction was to dismiss the 262 because your focus was on a.) night, and b.) RAF did night ops to avoid day fighters - and really developed no long range 'night escort' - so Ju88, Me110, He219 come to mind as bomber destroyer - all of which were exterminated against the USAAF Daylight ops.

My first reaction was daylight, where the 110G-2 and 410s and Ju88s were deadly against B-17s and B-24s but became easy prey for 51s, 38s and 47s - so the Fw190A8, Me262, and any Me109 equipped w/30mm were a better solution - but USAAF Mustangs solved all of the bomber destroyer threats except for the exceptionall high performance jets and rockets - couldn't stop a 262 or 163 from attacking

but the only reason the 262 didn't wreak havoc is because it took time to develop effective tactics, were too few in number, and those that existed were in mortal fear of the sweeps before and during takeoff as well as running out of fuel and trying to land. But nothing topped it for sheer performance and devastating anti-bomber firepower

The LW didn't have a 'night destroyer' problem with conventional a/c - it kept inflicting huge losses on RAF ops in 1945 because the RAF had no escort solution.. opposite situation for USAAF who last lost 10% of its striking force on May12, 1944 - and the LW had to have a technological leap to defeat the Escort to get to the bombers.

Regards,

Bill

 

[ToughOmbre]

Sturmgruppen FW 190s are high on the list.

On 15 August 1944 the 303rd Bomb Group lost nine B-17s in a little under two minutes on the return flight from it's target, the Luftwaffe airfield at Weisbaden, Germany.

Keith Ferris' print, "A Test of Courage", commemorates that mission.

 

[lesofprimus]

Perfect post Bill...

 

[drgondog]

Perfect post Bill...

Dan - thx but we both know I stumble on the English language and context as much as any. One good (really good) feature of this group is waving your arms and pontificating beliefs versus facts often end in having to swallow pride and admit that one didn't have all the fact or deal with right set of definitions.

Belief systems are hell when dealing w/Pragmatists

PS I just stumbled on a bunch of pics I took with Doolitle, Rall, Krupinski, Tolliver, Galland, Scharf, Tolliver, Parr, Landers, Gray, Sublett, Robin O. and others - does anybody give a Sh**? If so I will digitize and post

1984 Fighter Aces convention that I was asked to speak - plus catch up with guys I really cared about. The best part was Doolittle remembering when Priest picked up my father and having a rational argument with Galland and Rall about 'local air superiority' and last with one having dinner with one of my old mans best friends - who was in Hanoi Hilton when Fonda defiled the area - Gen John Flynn RIP

 

[lesofprimus]

Post that sh!t up u cigar smokin bastardo....

Ive met most of the same guys u have, albeit it was 25+ years ago, and no photos remain... I would love to see em...

 

[Soren]

Yes such pictures are always welcome !

 

[jaylg]

I would have to say the fw 190, but as a night-fighter the HE 219 seem to remember reading about one of those shooting down 5 Lancasters in a single sortie.

 

[xavier]

my vote is for the Me-163.

 

[drgondog]

Yes such pictures are always welcome !

Soren, Dan - I posted them a couple of days ago under http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fighter-aces-german-visitors-1984-a-9215.html

 

[Konigstiger205]

Me 262 no doubt....speed and firepower....lucky for the B17's it appeared very late in the war.

 

[Glider]

It is interesting how the mind works with a question like this. Personally I believe there are two parts to this.
a) Being able to destroy the bombers whilst
b) Avoiding the escort fighters.

On this basis the upgunned 190 and 109 don't make the grade because while they are excellent at shooting down the bombers, they are very vulnerable to any escorting fighters.
The 262 has to be the choice for the reasons known to us all. Massive firepower and the ability to use its speed to choose when and how to attack.

At night it becomes the best nightfighter, which is a different thread.

 

[drgondog]

It is interesting how the mind works with a question like this. Personally I believe there are two parts to this.
a) Being able to destroy the bombers whilst
b) Avoiding the escort fighters.

On this basis the upgunned 190 and 109 don't make the grade because while they are excellent at shooting down the bombers, they are very vulnerable to any escorting fighters.
The 262 has to be the choice for the reasons known to us all. Massive firepower and the ability to use its speed to choose when and how to attack.

At night it becomes the best nightfighter, which is a different thread.

Glider - those were my criteria and same choice for same reason.. the anology would be a "man among boys".. speed, pick the fight, devastating firepower, evade pursuers with near impunity.. nothing else close.

 

[Glider]

Glider - those were my criteria and same choice for same reason.. the anology would be a "man among boys".. speed, pick the fight, devastating firepower, evade pursuers with near impunity.. nothing else close.

Great Minds!!!
Its almost a case of picking the second best.

 

[xavier]

the 163 may not shot down many aircraft but it did hav solar panals so once it flew under a plane it detroyed it.