Best Bomber of ww2

[cheddar cheese]

Yeah, I agree with you there plan_D....shame they didn't make more of them too, would've been useful for other things besides U-boats...
This book I'm reading is by Norman Franks Eric Zimmerman, 1998, and is a lot of research collated to tie together the strings of who did what to who...The Mosquitos mentioned didn't have all that much success, partly because they were single aircraft against one or more U-boats, except in one instance of two against two, and the Mosquito's 4x 20mm + .303's were outgunned by quad 20mm's and 37mm's, the aircraft obviously more fragile than the U-boats, where even 20mm's were surviveable... - Quite bloody courageous on the part of anti-U-boat Aircrews.....

I read a story the other day that an RAF Catalina was patrolling the Atlantic and saw a U -Boat. It attacked and the the U-Boat fought, inflicting the Pilot with 72 injuries and completely trashed the plane. Despite this, he destroyed the U-boat and made it back to land where he recieved emergency medical attention. Oh, and he was awarded a Victoria Cross too.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I am familar with the 105mm gun. It was the primary heavy AA weapon for the Kreigsmarine.

 

[plan_D]

You wouldn't like one of them pointing at you while anti-shipping. "Dat 'Tse-Tse' hat 57mm, BAH! Wie hat 105mm! Ja ja ja!" That's what they'd say...exactly like that.

And the Mosquito pilot would say "Oh, bollocks ginger they've got those huge 'effin guns on that blighter! Let's twaddle off to blighty and screw this mission"

And that's what happened on the 18th June 1944. Exactly like that...I have..the erm...reports.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Piaggio P.108A had 102mm gun, bit fairer me thinks...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

not when it's so heavy and can proberly get no more than two shots in a pass, it'd be a sitting duck..............

 

[plan_D]

And why would a P.108 be shooting at a U-Boat? Politics never was your thing, was it?

 

[cheddar cheese]

Errrrrm, after the armistice perhaps?

not when it's so heavy and can proberly get no more than two shots in a pass, it'd be a sitting duck..............

Not with escort, and there'd be groups of em...that'd work well...

 

[plan_D]

It would be too heavy and escort isn't going to stop AA fire. Possibly after the Armistice but really, they didn't do that much against the Germans.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The P.108 wouldn't be shooting at anything since it never got into service.

 

[Anonymous]

Some U-Boats had very stiff AA, but what was dangerous to attacking planes was the 20mm, not the larger guns.

Even so, the idea of staying on the surface and fighting it out with an attacking plane was a failure and was abandon after some brief success against the earlier attack planes (such as the PBY) which were usually extremely slow.

Staying on the surface to duke it out with a B-24 or a Lancaster, let alone a Hellcat or other fighter type was foolisness. Even if they shot down 3 planes for every sub lost, the planes would have to be considered the victor. And it was clear they wern't going to do even that well.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[plan_D]

But then the Mosquito would just blast them senseless with a 6pdr. Genius. 8)

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

 

[cheddar cheese]

The P.108 wouldn't be shooting at anything since it never got into service.

Well the P.108A with the 102mm gun wouldnt because only one was built and that got Captured by the Germans

 

[Lightning Guy]

The US Navy 'jeep carriers' typical used F4F fighters to strafe a U-Boat to kill of drive off the gun crews. Then a TBM would roll in and blast the submarine with rockets, bombs, depth charges, etc. The U-boats best bet was to dive. Sticking around on the surface was suicide.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Errrrrm, after the armistice perhaps?

not when it's so heavy and can proberly get no more than two shots in a pass, it'd be a sitting duck..............

Not with escort, and there'd be groups of em...that'd work well...

and can i just point out, whilst i know little of RA tactics, it's unlikely they'd send groups of bombers with big guns and fighter escort on routine patroll, possible against specific targets, but if the SM.79 couldn't do it, what chance did the P.108 have??

 

[cheddar cheese]

Heres the irony, the SM.79 could do it, it was one of the best torpedo bombers of the war...

 

[Anonymous]

For anti-U-Boat work, how about the Hellcat (or Wildcat) carrying two FIDO's?

This little baby, devloped by inferior American technolgy went from drawing board to operational use in just 16 months, sinking its first U-Boat in May 1943. 204 FIDO's were launched against enemy submarines, sinking 37 of them and damaging at least 18 more.

Note: usually 2 FIDO's were fired at a target u-boat.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[Gemhorse]

Yes, that was what happened, fighters would strafe whilst calling-up support...
By the latter stages of the War, there was greater coordination with anti-sub aircraft, and the US did contribute some great additional technology, besides the additional aircraft....
If a patrolling aircraft stumbled onto a surfaced sub, it usually attacked ASAP before it could dive, which could happen despite Doenitz's order to stay-up and fight, but let's not under-estimate the firepower of the U-boats, they were deadly, and accurate!.....
- CC is quite right about the amount of damage the aircraft could absorb, and having to come right over to drop their ordinance, they copped-it at almost point-blank....Unfortunately, the bigger the aircraft, the bigger the crews usually, so losses were high, hence my bitch about aircraft armament being insufficent. Some of the U-boat crews were very well trained, and getting sprayed by .303's with all that heavy metal to duck behind helped, whilst incoming aircraft had to deal with a voracious amount of up-coming flak....Essentially it was the depth-charges or bombs that did any serious damage, but getting down there and accurately placing them against that sort of barrage was nothing short of heroic....
Things were helped by the introduction of FIDO and RP's, the latter more or less replacing 57mm cannon, and the 20mms were really a case of simply 'trading shots'...
- Being able to lob stuff at U-boats from more of a distance, plus the greater number of aircraft involved, was what really made the difference in the end......

Oh, and incidentally, Wellington bombers basically carried the same bomb-tare as B-17's.........

 

[Lightning Guy]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of AA fire power are we talking about here?

The American submarines might carry a couple of 40mm as well as a couple of 20mm. While that isn't a bad load, it is completely inadequate to stop a determined attack. Where the U-boats any better armed?

 

[Gemhorse]

From what I'm reading, twin 20mm's, quad 20mm's, a single 37mm [I think it's single] and the main deck gun, 88mm I think....