Best Dogfighter Poll Revisited...

[Anonymous]

Udet,

I agree, Yeager is very arrogant. However, he did score 5 kills in a single day, on something like his 8th sortie over France.

I agree, Germany's position in WWII had some disadvantages. But I really think the biggest factor leading to their defeat was incompetant leadership and the failure to fully utilize their economy for war production until it was far far too late to matter.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[NightHawk]

My vote gose to the Zero as well, Its fast and deadly,

 

[Udet]

RG:

I am glad to realize you and me can sometimes agree, at least in some points!

Remember i have not suggested gentleman Yeager was a bad pilot, at all. Simply the remarks i´ve commented here. He was indeed arrogant but also contradictory; all i can say is I found him amusing.

I also agree with you on the incompetence and disorganization in the German high command which contributed to their final defeat.

They simply had too many private designers working independently, each pursuing his very own interest and aircraft models. When they saw what was coming, say, by mid 1943, the German high command should perhaps have brought all designers together into a very close coordination in order to establish a more efficient program for distributing raw materials, labor force and spare parts programs.

That is, they should have implemented, maintained and assure adherence of aircraft desginers to the Reich´s designing and production policies. They simply did not.

Germany did not have access to large natural resources, therefore a coherent production program was necessary.

Example: many say the Bf109 should have been phased out, say, by the end of 1943, in order to let the Fw190 be the mainstay fighter of the Luftwaffe alone.

I disagree there. The Bf109 Gs and Ks were superb fighters (yes, i know manouverability got somewhat affected; likewise the superb Spitfire did not evolve seeing its manouverability unscathed). The Fw190As and Ds, not to mention the Ta152 were also superb fighters.

One single fighter could not have covered absolutely all roles being always a marvel. The Bf109 could do things the Fw190 couldn´t and viceversa. So i see both types necessary.

But why to continue producing as late as 1944 -and in the cases of some types to the very end of the war- the Bf110 (great as nightfighter though), the flunked the Me 210 and the Me410? The Me 410 was a great plane, but it came to life too late and its chances against single engine enemy fighters were little, so perhaps it should not have been produced beyond protoype models.

Furthermore, why continue to produce bombers?

Perhaps not a single bomber should have been produced when 1944 commenced. I know bombers were necessary in some theathers by such date, but if the resources -material and laborforce- devoted to produce bombers had been used to produce more fighters, who knows what could have happened.

Keeping the fearsome and superb Ju88 for nightfighting duties and perhaps working further -in accordance with the Reich´s policies- to solve the problems of a plane with great potential such as the He219, why did they continue to produce the He111, the later Dorniers, the several prototypes of heavy bombers and the Stuka? (The Stuka was a great plane, but the conditions for its deployment in significant numbers had ceased to exist).

Let´s see, roughly 1,200 Me 410s were produced. We are talking about some 2,400 engines. What if 2,400 Fw190s had been produced instead?

There were many other factors which played a role as well. The fuel crisis which struck the Reich by mid 1944 grounded a good deal of the Luftwaffe.

I simply attempted to mention one aspect that you mentioned and that is very true. The Germans failed to put their stuff together and even if they had superb planes and many superb pilots, they simply wasted it.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree some consolidation of engineering efforts should have been made. I also agree production of twin engine designs (except as night fighters and perhaps ground support aircraft) was foolish after the start of 1944, and questionable even at the start of 1943, but it is easy to see how the high command deluded itself into believing it would somehow be able to regain the initiative and would need bombers in the future.

In the Reich, politics often played a bigger role in aircraft acceptance than quality of designs. It is interesting to note that only two single engine designs were produced in any quantity during WWII, the 109 and the 190. Furthermore, the 190 was kind of a fluke, Tank pushed it through against the current of the Nazi system by accepting the BMW air cooled engine, which severely limited high altitude performance. Lack of diversity in engineering opportunities was another problem of the Nazi system.

Personally, I thin the 109 design was not worth futher development by the end of 1941, maybe 1942. Another design was needed. I have to wonder what Tank would have done with the DB engine had he been able to design a plane around it?

But most of all, the German's failed to fully utilize their economy from the start of the war. Had they ramped up for total war the way the British and USA did within the first year of war they would have done much better. Likewise, they failed to capitalize on what resources were available to them early enough for it to matter. Germany was only oil poor because they failed to exploit the available supply sources in 1940 and 1941. Had they run things properly, they would have had pleanty of oil from the balkins and the airpower to defend it.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[Archangel]

Had they run things properly, they would have had pleanty of oil from the balkins and the airpower to defend it.

ony on this i can disagree, I dont think you can say they didnt run things properly when it als depends on what the enemy is doing.

 

[Hot Space]

Who's voted for the 190D

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[KraziKanuK]

Personally, I thin the 109 design was not worth futher development by the end of 1941, maybe 1942. Another design was needed. I have to wonder what Tank would have done with the DB engine had he been able to design a plane around it?

But Tank did have DB powered a/c, that had flown in the summer of 1942, the would have been the Fw190C.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Who's voted for the 190D

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People who've never heard of the Spit XIV, obviously!

 

[Hot Space]

Damn blast those people

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[cheddar cheese]

I already have

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i still aint voted...........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Then vote for the XIV

 

[mosquitoman]

No, vote for the Tempest

 

[cheddar cheese]

No, Yak-3 :wink

 

[Anonymous]

Had they run things properly, they would have had pleanty of oil from the balkins and the airpower to defend it.

ony on this i can disagree, I dont think you can say they didnt run things properly when it als depends on what the enemy is doing.

Sure you can. What you can say is that even had they run things right they might not have been successful.

Failure to exploit their advantage and expand and harden Rumanian oil production and produce sufficient fighters (and pilots) to defend this vital resource was a critical error for which there was no excuse.

Failure to enter a "war economy" until 1944 had nothing to do with what the enemy was doing - it was a critical error of German leadership.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[Hot Space]

No, Yak-3 :wink

Go the whole hog and vote for the Sopwith Camel

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[cheddar cheese]

Nah, the Avro Antelope

 

[Hot Space]

Here's the Mk XIVe with the Universal Horns and two 20mm Hoofs.......

..........It's the one I like to be in more then any other

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[cheddar cheese]

Phwoar, thats a beauty! 8)

 

[Hot Space]

Stop looking, you know I'm shy

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