lesofprimus
Brigadier General
The point of the D-Day comment was for P-38s referral to the Normandy Beach Landings, that didnt happen for 2 more years....
Best ETO fighter from 1939-1942
- Thread starter DerAdlerIstGelandet
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Status
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
Gnomey said:
The Mk IX was a counter to the 190A, not the Mk V.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
plan_D said:
D-Day occured in the early hours of November 8, 1942.
If I remember correctly, the US and French forces actually fought it out for a bit. (and guess who lost yet again, hehehehehehhe)
Back to topic. I think the FW was the best throughout 1942. The Spitfire was still an excellent machine, but needed upgrades. The P38 was on the upward slope of greatness, but because it had only seen limited combat, we cant say it was great.
The 109/Hurricane/P40 were all 1939-1940 planes, getting past their prime.
- Thread starter
- #25
I believe there is a thread dedicated to the whole "Anglo-American" and other countries contributed the WW2 topic. Just wanted to throw that out there for the people that did not know that there were many nations in WW2. 
cheddar cheese
Major General
Has to be the 190A...P-38 wasnt at its best yet...
I´ll clearly go for the German fighters.
I see both the E´s and F´s versions of the 109 slightly superior to their contemporary Spitfires; the arrival of the Butcher Bird to units such as the Richtofen and Schlageter geschwadern in the west made the situation only more dramatical for the RAF.
Even though the Home RAF managed to win the Battle of Britain in 1940, it was not due to any technical superiority of their hardware.
Just follow the calendar after the cancellation of Luftwaffe´s major operations over England in late 1940, and you will see the RAF´s performance during 1941 and 1942 showed they were going nowhere in fighting the Luftwaffe.
Pounded to hell over the Channel and France, also in North Africa upon the arrival of I./JG 27 in 1941; uncapable of providing proper air cover to British forces in some regions (i.e. may 1941, operation Merkur: the Luftwaffe had an orgy with the Royal Navy off the coasts of Crete) i do think the superiority of the Jagdwaffe over the RAF is clear.
I see both the E´s and F´s versions of the 109 slightly superior to their contemporary Spitfires; the arrival of the Butcher Bird to units such as the Richtofen and Schlageter geschwadern in the west made the situation only more dramatical for the RAF.
Even though the Home RAF managed to win the Battle of Britain in 1940, it was not due to any technical superiority of their hardware.
Just follow the calendar after the cancellation of Luftwaffe´s major operations over England in late 1940, and you will see the RAF´s performance during 1941 and 1942 showed they were going nowhere in fighting the Luftwaffe.
Pounded to hell over the Channel and France, also in North Africa upon the arrival of I./JG 27 in 1941; uncapable of providing proper air cover to British forces in some regions (i.e. may 1941, operation Merkur: the Luftwaffe had an orgy with the Royal Navy off the coasts of Crete) i do think the superiority of the Jagdwaffe over the RAF is clear.
MacArther
Staff Sergeant
Yeah, the P-38 was very usefull in the the early stages of the war, and the Germans ended up naming it "the Fork-tailed Devil" because of the devastation it could cause. Personally, between this and the rough and tumble P-40 I don't know which I could chose. P.S. the defiant was a turreted fighter that was hated by its crews, so I don't know how it could counter the Fw-190.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The P38 was showing lots of promise, but it was also showing some issues (like compressability) that needed a solution. I think one of the problems the Luftwaffe had upon its first encounters with the P38, was that it was similar to the -110, and would be meat on the table. Of course they learned quickly about it.
I put the P38 above the P40 cause its high altitude performance made it more usefull.
I put the P38 above the P40 cause its high altitude performance made it more usefull.
evangilder
"Shooter"
I would certainly take a P-38 over a P-40. The "fork tailed devil" nickname is a myth though.
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
The P-38 was very effective in the MTO durring that period and the recorts were that it was as/more maneuverable than its opponents at tha time. Compressibility and cold cockpits were not an issue there either (the climate was warm and the altitudes normanl close to/below 20K). On the flip side they were few, only those flown from the states in Bolero then from Britain. Their biggest impact there was in early '43.
The Spitfire, 109, 190, 38 are very close performance at that time, Throw in multy-duty and I'd go with the P-38 or the Fw-190, depending mostly on which side I flew on. The P-38 had a 6:1 kill rate in the MTO.
I've heard that the Forked-Tailed-Devil nick name is fiction but even stuff of the period mentions it and it did come from somewhere. Finaly the FG Comander of Sardinia went to Galland with the complant - the P-38s, after flying from Africa, were decimating his fighters with their performance including out maneuvering his fighters, The P-38s were well respected.
wmaxt
The Spitfire, 109, 190, 38 are very close performance at that time, Throw in multy-duty and I'd go with the P-38 or the Fw-190, depending mostly on which side I flew on. The P-38 had a 6:1 kill rate in the MTO.
I've heard that the Forked-Tailed-Devil nick name is fiction but even stuff of the period mentions it and it did come from somewhere. Finaly the FG Comander of Sardinia went to Galland with the complant - the P-38s, after flying from Africa, were decimating his fighters with their performance including out maneuvering his fighters, The P-38s were well respected.
wmaxt
evangilder
"Shooter"
I am not disagreeing that it had an impact in the MTO. But the nickname was likely allied propaganda.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Someones voting more than 1 time for this poll... The Spitfire is getting way too many votes all of a sudden... Like 8 votes in a row, and the -190 gets none??
Someones being a scumbag....
Someones being a scumbag....
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I guess the -190 has an image problem.
The Spitfire does look sexier any way you cut it.
The Spitfire does look sexier any way you cut it.
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
The dominant fighter of the period would have to be the 190A series. Simply no other fighter of the period could match it in terms of performance.
It was more heavily armed, faster and smaller than any of its competitors. It would out accelerate a Spitfire, outdive a 109, out roll ANYTHING and had more firepower than any other fighter of the period. It terrorised the British, prompting them to speed up the introduction of the 2 speed, 2 stage Merlin Spitfire. Even the early Griffon engined variants were built expressly to catch low-level 190 raiders.
The 190 was also effective in all roles for a single engined dayfighter; interceptor, fighter, bomber destroyer, fighter bomber. About its only drawback is a lack of range and the engine problems of the A1 and A2
It was more heavily armed, faster and smaller than any of its competitors. It would out accelerate a Spitfire, outdive a 109, out roll ANYTHING and had more firepower than any other fighter of the period. It terrorised the British, prompting them to speed up the introduction of the 2 speed, 2 stage Merlin Spitfire. Even the early Griffon engined variants were built expressly to catch low-level 190 raiders.
The 190 was also effective in all roles for a single engined dayfighter; interceptor, fighter, bomber destroyer, fighter bomber. About its only drawback is a lack of range and the engine problems of the A1 and A2
MacArther
Staff Sergeant
Despiste all of this, the P-40 could absorb more damage and still dish more out than any of the mentioned fighters. It may not have been the most glamorus, but it got the job done, and it worked well as a fighter bomber/close support aircraft.
Piaggio108
Airman
Spitfire Mk.IX
Fw-190A
Spitfire Mk.V
Bf-109F
P-38
I actualy voted -190, but then realized that the Mk.IX entered service in '42. Sry. 190 is better than the MK.V though.
Fw-190A
Spitfire Mk.V
Bf-109F
P-38
I actualy voted -190, but then realized that the Mk.IX entered service in '42. Sry. 190 is better than the MK.V though.
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
Piaggio108 said:
Belive it or not I have a comparison (From Doc's page I think) that shows two Spit IX and P-38F. The Spits out turned it but the P-38 was right in the middle of the 2 Spits performance curves, who had different Prop reduction ratios.
It's true the 190 had much better rolling capacity (more that 2x) but the 38 could more than hold its own with one esp. below 15,000ft. Robin Olds got 2 in a turning style dogfight, on his first encounter with German planes.
All of these planes are so close in performance that personal prefference is a large part of the choice. I chose the P-38 because it Also has multi-roll capacity And more range, making it more flexible.
my list
P-38
Fw-190A
Spitfire
Bf-109F/P-40
Within a 1:1.3 range
wmaxt
MacArther
Staff Sergeant
YEESSSS!!! GO P40! thank you wmaxt!
Glider
Captain
For what its worth my order would be
Equal First Spit 9 and 190
they were to close to call and it depended on the pilot and strategic position. If pushed, I would give it to the 190 for its versatility.
Close second P38. - I haven't seen any example of a P38 outfighting a Spitfire in a trial. Robin Olds was an exceptional pilot who could do things that most pilots couldn't. An exceptional pilot in any of the above planes would almost certainly beat an average pilot in any other.
Third 109F
It couldn't match the above three planes but was better than the P40. The Spit 5 was a good match for the 109F but the Spit 9 beat it.
Fourth P40
Sorry but I believe it to be well outclassed by the others unless at low level. It could take damage, but so could the 190 and P38. Its armament was better than the 109F, about the same as the Spit and worse than the P38 and 190.
Happy to be proved wrong in any of the above
Equal First Spit 9 and 190
they were to close to call and it depended on the pilot and strategic position. If pushed, I would give it to the 190 for its versatility.
Close second P38. - I haven't seen any example of a P38 outfighting a Spitfire in a trial. Robin Olds was an exceptional pilot who could do things that most pilots couldn't. An exceptional pilot in any of the above planes would almost certainly beat an average pilot in any other.
Third 109F
It couldn't match the above three planes but was better than the P40. The Spit 5 was a good match for the 109F but the Spit 9 beat it.
Fourth P40
Sorry but I believe it to be well outclassed by the others unless at low level. It could take damage, but so could the 190 and P38. Its armament was better than the 109F, about the same as the Spit and worse than the P38 and 190.
Happy to be proved wrong in any of the above
- Status
