Best naval fighter

[Lightning Guy]

The ONLY respects that the Shiden was superior to the Corsair was in maneuverability and firepower. A decent pilot in a Corsair can use his plane's speed to not got suckered into a maneuvering fight and the Corsair's 6 .50cals weren't equal to the 4 20mms of the Shiden but they were perfectly fine for shooting down fighters.

 

[plan_D]

Exactly, the Corsairs pilot needs to be decent.

 

[Lightning Guy]

And the Shiden pilot needs to be great.

 

[plan_D]

No he doesn't, if the Cosair pilot is average he fails to realise he can't use manuverability the Shiden pilot can walk all over him.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the shiden didn't need a good pilot, just think about it, they didn't have good pilots to fly tham and they got on fine, as soon as the corsair was in his sights, a small press of the "tit", and he was dead...........

 

[plan_D]

Exactly, and it wouldn't have been hard (as easy as you could get in a dogfight because dogfighting wasn't exactly easy) to get him in his sights.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and aren't i right in thinking the corsair couldn't accelerate that fast in a strait line?

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Corsair accelerated pretty well straightline. If you have ever heard of the 343rd Kokutai, it was (as far as I know) the only unit equipped with the N1K2 Shiden. The 343rd Kokutai was called the "Squadron of Experts" because it was made up of the last great pilots the IJN had (Nishizawa, Sakai, etc.). Dogfighting requires incredible acrobatic skill, you can't just use one maneuver you've got to be SKILLED in several. You also need to have excellent awareness of the situation. How much skill does it take to put the stick and throttle forward? That's all that a Corsair pilot in trouble had to do.

 

[plan_D]

If a Shiden got him in his sights he wouldn't have long to realise he was in trouble. Plus a Shiden in a Corsairs sights could out manouver it's problem.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Again if the Shiden has a pilot that knows what he is doing. Look at it this way, neither the Corsair, nor the Hellcat, nor the Lightning could outmaneuver a Zero but the Americans learned to use their speed to decimate those planes. It would have been the same with the Shiden. It closed the performance gap on the Americans but was still not nearly as fast. The only way the Shiden beats a Corsair is if the Shiden pilot is an expert.

 

[plan_D]

The Corsair pilot needs to know what he is doing, there's one thing going into a dive but you have to keep out of the Shidens way. You dive down that's not the end of it.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it depends if the corsair pilot "put's the pedal to the metal" as soon as he getis into trubble, if he stays and fights, he's dead, if he runs like a wimp, he lives.............

 

[plan_D]

Then he's lost the battle, either way.

 

[Lightning Guy]

So if maneuverability is everything why did the Hellcat, Lightning and Corsair have such success against the Zero? Answer: they used superior speed to engage in combat where they had the advantage and flee when they didn't. The Corsair held all the same advantages over the Shiden.

 

[plan_D]

No, they succeeded because 1) the Zero couldn't take any damage 2) the Zero wasn't armed with 4*20mm. Hellcats and Lightnings could take punishment, but from 4*20mm not much is going to stay up in the air.

 

[Lightning Guy]

They key to succeeding in combat is avoiding your enemy's strengths. The -4 Corsair posessed a speed advantage of nearly 70mph over the Shiden. Combat between the Hellcat, Lightning, Corsair, and Zero showed that the superior speed of the American fighters allowed them to avoid the maneuvering fights which favored the Zero. It would have been exactly the same between the Corsair and the Shiden.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but to win, you would have to run like hell, and that isn't a win, you soon any speed advantage in a turning fight, where the shiden wins, and remember you can't keep up top speed for long...................

 

[plan_D]

The Americans fighters used to fly head on at the Zero as their best way to take it down, or you can dive out of the sky. If you haven't the height advantage, or you don't get dead on with him, you're screwed.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Corsair didn't have to maintain top speed to keep ahead of the Shiden as it was 70mph faster!!! The Shiden can't maintain it's top speed either so the speed advantage of the Corsair continues. Because of its speed advantages, a Corsair can choose when to engage (like from above or from out of the sun or behind a cloud) or when to run away (because smart pilots do that). A Corsair with an altitude advantage can dive, attack, and climb back to altitude and the Shiden can't do thing 1 about it. The Corsair without an altitude advantage can avoid combat. The Shiden was the better dogfigher but there is NOTHING the Shiden can do to force a Corsair into that type of combat.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

true, but if he did stay and fight, he was dead..........