Best radial fighter of '42

[claidemore]

I've some doubt as Wildcat as 2nd in the asian threater.
I don't think there were 190 fighter in Africa but i don't checked it


CORRECTION II/2 came in Africa in november '42 and fightning same month

Hi Vincenzo:

The FW190 did indeed serve in North Africa from November 1942.
II/JG2 for example flew 190A4s there.

a good link.

The Focke-Wulf FW 190 in Afrika

 

[Vincenzo]

Hi Vincenzo:

The FW190 did indeed serve in North Africa from November 1942.
II/JG2 for example flew 190A4s there.

a good link.

The Focke-Wulf FW 190 in Afrika

have you trouble with visualization of topic?

if not you can noted my CORRECTION also in your quote, sure it's a good link same page i used for the correction.

 

[renrich]

Just ran across an interesting table in Dean's "America's Hundred Thousand" that I had not digested before since I have only owned the book about ten years. LOL For those not familiar, the book is about the approx. 100000 fighters the US built during WW2 and is voluminous. The part of the table I will tack on here rather than start a new thread shows the date a contract was awarded for that particular fighter and the date of first combat. Here it is:
F4F/FM, July 28, 1936, December, 1940.
F2A, June 22, 1936, April, 1940
P40, July 30, 1937, May, 1941.
P38, June 23, 1937, August, 1942
P39, October 7, 1937, April, 1942
F4U/FG, June 11, 1938, February, 1943
P51, May, 1940, July, 1942
P47, September 6, 1940, , April, 1943
P61, January 30, 1941, June 1944
F6F, June 30, 1941, August, 1943
P63, June 27, 1941,
The interesting point to me is that every fighter was in development before the war began for the US. Apparently the P63 never saw combat.

 

[renrich]

Vincenzo, as to your doubt about F4F3 being second, the F4F3 and F4F4(not as good a performer as the 3) held their own against the IJN A6Ms in 1942 in the PTO. The only reason I would pick the A6M over the F4F was it's great range. Interesting about the FWs in North Africa. Wonder if there was as much resistance among the LW pilots converting from the ME109 to FW190 as there was among the US pilots converting from Spitfires to P47s?

 

[claidemore]

renrich:
JG2 ,who flew the 'fighter' FW190s in North Africa, was originally a Channel gruppen, and one of the first to use the 190. I haven't ready of any negative opinions regarding the switch from Messerschmitts to 190s, though I'm no expert on JG2. I believe they were quite pleased with the new planes, which definately outperformed the E4's and F2/F4s they had been using and were a quantum leap ahead of the Spitfire MkVs they were fighting at that time.
I've read that some of II/JG2 (the North Africa unit), switched to 109G6's after they got back to the continent, and then back to FW190D's later on. Lots of switching for some.

 

[Elvis]

Just ran across an interesting table in Dean's "America's Hundred Thousand" that I had not digested before since I have only owned the book about ten years. LOL For those not familiar, the book is about the approx. 100000 fighters the US built during WW2 and is voluminous. The part of the table I will tack on here rather than start a new thread shows the date a contract was awarded for that particular fighter and the date of first combat. Here it is:
F4F/FM, July 28, 1936, December, 1940.
F2A, June 22, 1936, April, 1940
P40, July 30, 1937, May, 1941.
P38, June 23, 1937, August, 1942
P39, October 7, 1937, April, 1942
F4U/FG, June 11, 1938, February, 1943
P51, May, 1940, July, 1942
P47, September 6, 1940, , April, 1943
P61, January 30, 1941, June 1944
F6F, June 30, 1941, August, 1943
P63, June 27, 1941,
The interesting point to me is that every fighter was in development before the war began for the US. Apparently the P63 never saw combat.

Either that book was written during the war, or you've discovered a typo.

The P-39 was the "Airacobra". It's successor was the P-63 "King Cobra"

Warbird Alley: Bell P-63 Kingcobra


Elvis

 

[renrich]

Elvis, the book is fairly recent and very authoritative. Why are you saying there is a typo? OK, I understand now, I went back and reviewed the text and Dean says that about two thirds of the P63s went to Russia. Apparently he had no date when they first saw combat. An interesting point is that the Russians claimed the P63 had a weak aft fuselage and they had to be strengthened.

 

[Juha]

IIC P-63s which went to Soviet Union were first given to PVO, for air defence for Moscow etc and didn't see combat against Germany. IIRC some saw action against Japanese in 1945, but that was very limited because of very few Japanese a/c around and the short period of the operations. French P-63s saw action in French Indo-China but of course only against ground targets.

And Dean's book is excellent even if one can find some small errors here and there.

Juha

 

[renrich]

Juha, interesting about the P63 in Russia. I agree about Dean's book. It is a monumental effort and probably should be in the library of everyone interested in WW2 AC. I would be surprised if any book that voluminous had no mistakes.

 

[Njaco]

SKG 10 also operated the Fw 190 in NA and the Med on jabo operations.

Schnellkampfgeschwader 10

 

[JoeB]

According to "Red Stars vol 4" by Guest and Petrov the 67th Guards Fighter Regiment used a small number of P-63's in the Battle of Berlin, no exact date given nor any examples given of air combat. Several PVO regiments around Moscow were indeed the main early users. Then at least 6 regiments were equipped with P-63's during the 'August Storm' operation against Japan in August 1945. But as mentioned there was very little air combat in that campaign. The only known P-63 aerial claim was by the 17 Fighter Regiment, a Moscow district PVO unit sent east to participate in that campaign. Their Jr. Lt. Miroshnichenko claimed a Type 97 or Type 1 fighter among those attacking A-20's, and damaging one A-20, near Wangyemiao, Manchuria 15 August 1945. The Japanese claimed at least several Soviet a/c that day, the only day with any known aerial claims by either side in Manchuria proper (Soviet Fleet Air Arm Yak-9's also made some claims over northern Korea). The JAAF sortied 12 Type 4's, 9 Type 2 two seat fighters and 18 Type 1's that day; but their air combat losses aren't mentioned in known references. The JAAF reported a total of around 10 a/c lost to all combat causes in the 1945 Manchurian campaign; they made extensive claims against Soviet material in strafing attacks so ground fire probably accounted for most of those losses. The Manchukuo AF still operated Type 97's in August '45 but their operations aren't known.

Also, a USAAF P-63 claimed a Japanese balloon bomb over Washington state in March 1945, if that counts as 'combat'.

Joe

 

[Elvis]

Elvis, the book is fairly recent and very authoritative. Why are you saying there is a typo? OK, I understand now, I went back and reviewed the text and Dean says that about two thirds of the P63s went to Russia. Apparently he had no date when they first saw combat. An interesting point is that the Russians claimed the P63 had a weak aft fuselage and they had to be strengthened.

Maybe Dean should get with the guys over at "Warbird Alley".
Here's a quote from their section on the P-63, which I included in my last post...

Production of the P-63 Kingcobra for the USAAC began in October of 1943, and nearly 3,300 aircraft were produced before the end of the war. Under lend-lease, the Russians bought 2,400 Kingcobras, and a further 300 were flown by the Free French. The rest were restricted to training squadrons in the United States by the USAAF.
About 300 P-63s were turned into RP-63 flying targets for dogfight practice with frangible bullets. All armor and armament were removed from these planes, and a skin of duralumin protected the wings, fuselage and tail. Bulletproof glass was installed, steel grilles were put over the air intake, and a steel sleeve protected the exhaust stacks. A propeller with thick, hollow blades was also installed. When a hit was scored, a red light came on in the cockpit to indicate where the P-63 had been shot.
Production of the P-63 ended on VJ-Day. Only a half-dozen P-63s remain flying today.

Elvis

 

[JoeB]

Maybe Dean should get with the guys over at "Warbird Alley".
Here's a quote from their section on the P-63, which I included in my last post...

Umm, where does that say when P-63's first saw combat? But I tried to answer that in my post above. In general if you're implying you can save your money on books like Dean's (or Petrov and Guest or the Japanese documents I used in the post above) and get the same quality info on generic websites...I don't agree.

Joe

 

[Elvis]

Sorry Joe. I interpreted "first saw combat" and "production began" as meaning the same thing.
Otherwise, I wasn't implying anything other than what I stated.


Elvis

 

[renrich]

Elvis, if you have a chance to see Dean's book, with your interests. I know you would enjoy it. I bought mine about 10 years ago and am constantly finding new info I had not noticed plus there are many photos of AC going back to the 1920s. Dean is an aero engineer who worked for several aircraft companies. JoeB, as usual most interesting and informative posts.

 

[Elvis]

I'm sure I would, Renirich!

Ill keep an eye out for it.
Thanks for the heads up.



Elvis

 

[Cromwell]

Has anyone considered the Henschel HS123 ?


Seemed to do a great job as a ground-attack fighter-bomber even up to '44

 

[Elvis]

Good call, Cromwell.
I've often wondered about that one, myself.
Always seemed a bit odd to me, the innovative Germans utilizing a bi-plane for so long.


Elvis

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Great aircraft when it first was designed but by 1942 it was rather outclassed. There were certainly better Radials in service by that time.

 

[diddyriddick]

Gonna have to go with FW-190 here.