Best Tank Killer of WW2 continued

[Tony Williams]

as for Yak-9T, NS-37 has both shells, OZT (frag incendiary tracer) and BZT (armour piercing incendiary tracer)

I know that the gun could fire both types, but that is not my point. The Yak-9T was used by fighter units, who would have been issued with HE shells. I have seen no evidence that these units were issued with AP ammo.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

[exec228]

think I will stick with late war Fw 190F-8 with Panzerblitz Rockets

why they were so numerous (115 airplanes as Baugher said) when Faterland urged in them, calling even Hitlerjugend with Faustpatrons to stop armoured wave?
imho if Fw 190 F-8/Pb1 were SO successful, they would be manufactured in many more pieces.

 

[Erich]

? do you mind rewriting your statement again, I am not totally following

yes the F-8 with Panzerblitz was very successful against Soviet armor in the low level attacks from the flanks

forget the silly hitlerjugend in a/c if that is what you are implying, last ditch stupidity

 

[exec228]

rephrasing:
why this successful and needed aircraft was so low in numbers?

 

[Erich]

The F series for ground attack work became the basis for replacement of the Ju 87D especially on the Ost front. the Luftwaffe may have been slow to learn but not so much from Soviet mid alt. fighters but by the hampering slowness over Soviet tank columns and taking it in the shorts from Soviet ground based triple AA. the F-8 with various arms had the cannon arrangement of the standard A-8 fighter and could perform the work of ground attack with underbe4lley armor and then if need be kick back and take on attacking soviet Migs, Yaks, etc.........

10th Panzerstaffel of the SG's still retained the Kanonvögel for additional punch but the F-8 became the overall standard in late 44 till wars end with the Panzerblitz rockets. due to the fact that so many claims/victory's against Soviet A/C ad armor`MT's were destroyed by wars eventful end we do not have a complete picture of the F-8 and it's role. many former Ju 87 pilots flew the single engine job and scored both a/c to their tallies and of course armor.

as to few a numbers maybe look as to what the Luftwaffe's role was in the skies; only after January's 1945 end was the Luftwaffe ordered to concentrate the bulk of all it's forces to the Ost front to try in vain to keep the area of Berlin free. A very slight modest day fighter force was kept at home defence ~ JG's 300, 301, 53 and were slaughtered every time they per chance flew on missions

 

[exec228]

"friedrich with various arms" is quite different from "friedrich with panzerblitz". friedrich-8/gustav-8 are not bad jabos in general, but i feel that you insist on panzerkiller f-8/pb1.
joe baugher says that luftwaffe payed attention to the problem earlier than your january 1945. actually lw begun to receive f-8/pb1 inn december.
and if f-8/pb1 would be effective, lw would not cease ordering this version in february.
so, why "highly effetive tank killer f-8/pb1" was manufactured only in 115 pieces since december and order ceased in february?

 

[Erich]

re-read my posting, I have German acts in my position stating so. Panzerblitz was tested in the fall of 44 according to vets on the ost front with very limited numbers in their possession at the time. panzerblitz rockets stood in captured barns as shown by evidence of US army photos, doh ! you can plainly see why they did not get to the front when so desperately needed. why do you say 115 repeatedly as that is pure crap with an order ceasing in February ??, there were 100's captured as I just mentioned, F-8's sitting in fields captured by the Russians and US forces with the Panzerblitz rockets attached

 

[Erich]

I'll make a response to my response, I see what you are saying now as I was still confused. The rack system was also added in the field not just the factory given of 115 type a/c, this is why I say crap to the amount of F-8's equipped with the Panzerblitz rocket and the numbers of captured/trashed F-8 lying about on the fields.

by the way why do you try and remain invisible on the forums ?

 

[exec228]

1)do you have any reports on f-8/pb1 effectiveness? i'm interested in hit ratio and average number of hits per destroyed tank.
2)because this button is available to press, and i pressed it.

 

[lesofprimus]

by the way why do you try and remain invisible on the forums ?

2)because this button is available to press, and i pressed it.

Noob...

 

[Matt308]

 

[Erich]

one shot one kill, same as a 3.7cm tungsten round at the right spot. consider the fashion of attack low down and mean unlike the up and then bank down into it by the Tempest. Ratios ? who gives a rats ass

you still have not answered correctly exec about your supposed unseeness, and your smart ass comment(s) will not get you any brownie points...........wonder if you are viewing these forums on company time ?

 

[twoeagles]

I am very much a 'noob' on this forum, and over the last few weeks I have
been able to sort out some of the personalities and who, when they 'speak',
I can take what they say to the bank. When I am reading data posted by
Erich, or Tony Williams, or FlyboyJ, or derAdler, and many others, I pretty
much have confidence they are speaking from experience and/or years of their
own homework and research.

And there lies the pity with exec228. He flashes on here with figures and
answers and lists and I am initially wowed, but then I trip over the attitude.
The in-your-face brazen "me right, you not" attitude, and suddenly I find
myself discounting anything he has posted. And that is sad because I
would think anyone who takes the time to log on here and submit ideas
and information wants to be taken seriously, or at least be respected. So
hopefully exec228 and others who fit that mold will come around, or at least
take a valium and chill just a bit. To eveyone's benefit.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I see it this way twoeagles. Everyone has knowledge on certain areas and the reason most of us are here is to share out knowledge and learn even more from the others. There are some though that are self processed know-it-alls that are here for there secret agendas.

 

[mkloby]

When I am reading data posted by
Erich, or Tony Williams, or FlyboyJ, or derAdler, and many others, I pretty
much have confidence they are speaking from experience and/or years of their own homework and research.

I usually just make crap up

I see it this way twoeagles. Everyone has knowledge on certain areas and the reason most of us are here is to share out knowledge and learn even more from the others. There are some though that are self processed know-it-alls that are here for there secret agendas.

I have a secret agenda. It's so secret that I haven't found it out yet... I stumbled upon this site one day randomly searching for something about WWII birds... ended up sticking around because of the atmosphere here. It definitely is a very diverse crowd w/ a wide array of interests and specialties. I particularly like the fact that there are members from all over the globe. Different viewpoints...

 

[plan_D]

Many different viewpoints that all revolve around "I'm better than you! Hahaha!"

 

[exec228]

Noob...

nothing to do, except expulcing malice on me?

 

[exec228]

one shot one kill, same as a 3.7cm tungsten round at the right spot. consider the fashion of attack low down and mean unlike the up and then bank down into it by the Tempest.

i consider fashion of spraying with rare hits, probably even without.

Ratios ? who gives a rats ass

of course you don't.
shooting is more important than hitting.

you still have not answered correctly exec about your supposed unseeness, and your smart ass comment(s) will not get you any brownie points...........wonder if you are viewing these forums on company time ?

why should i report my actions?
i'm free to act under rules.

 

[102first_hussars]

nothing to do, except expulcing malice on me?

Hey we got a live Meatball here Les!

 

[exec228]

1.my joke about tanks was not understood. it was reacted quite aggressively.
2.then heavyweight people don't want to talk constructively.
so, where is my guilt?

i'm trying to ask kinda respectable member about effectiveness of f-8/pb1, and he makes me think that he just believes f-8/pb1 to be an effective panzer killer and invites me to join this imagination.

i'd be very sad if this beliefth is not backed up with some IRL reports about hit ratio.

because i know that pilots of il-2 in combat conditions could not achieve satisfactory results with brs-82 and brs-132 (though these rockets are destructive enough for panzers WHEN HIT SCORED).

also, mr. Williams confirmed low effectiveness of RP's when said that tiffies could hardly hit such a small target, which the panzer is.

that is why i am really interested in expert opinion of lw effectiveness of rockets vs tanks, when other airforces did not enjoyed it.

afaik principal decision was to use cluster of cumulative bomblets, such as "PTAB 2.5-1.5" for Il-2, which could penetrate 70mm of armour. Il-2 could take 192 of these 1.5kg HEAT bomblets and cover 30mx200m with one drop. none of tanks survived in this area.

use of cumas was quite shocking and made wehrmacht to deconcentrate tanks to reduce casualties, thus sensibly reducing punch force of panzer divisions.

afair both il-2 and ju 87 used clusters of cumulative bombs.