Never use Wikipedia as a golden source! It can be rewritten by anyone and is allways full of mistakes.
Wiki is good to use as a quick source but you have to be careful with it.
Best Tank Killer of WW2 continued
- Thread starter Erich
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Never use Wikipedia as a golden source! It can be rewritten by anyone and is allways full of mistakes.
Wiki is good to use as a quick source but you have to be careful with it.
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
Well, I don't care what you guys came up with, I say the Sturmovik delivered a heavy punch, while providing superior protection to the occupants from ground fire.
...however, has anyone compared the P-39/P-63's role in the "Great Patriotic War" against the Sturmo or the Stuka?
I think the Bell's were faster and more agile, and that big 37 in the nose gave it a pretty hard punch, too.
I also understand the P-38's were wonderful ground strafing machines, due (in part) to the 20mm cannon they carried.
However, for tanks, I don't know.
Elvis
...however, has anyone compared the P-39/P-63's role in the "Great Patriotic War" against the Sturmo or the Stuka?
I think the Bell's were faster and more agile, and that big 37 in the nose gave it a pretty hard punch, too.
I also understand the P-38's were wonderful ground strafing machines, due (in part) to the 20mm cannon they carried.
However, for tanks, I don't know.
Elvis
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Well then, if u dont care what WE guys think about the subject, why the fu*k are u here in the first place???? I suppose ur vast knowledge of the subject makes u a much more qualified source of information....
Is that it???
Welcome back Dan...
B-17engineer
Colonel
Yea, I was just going there Quickly, I was about to go out to eat.
Yea. I guess dan is back!
Yea. I guess dan is back!
Yea. I guess dan is back!
You should probably still call him Les...
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Ur fu*kin goddamn right u call me les... When u get to the point of calling me by my given name, u'll know when...
drgondog
Major
LMAO - welcome back D - it's as if you never left!
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
I used to lay awake at night, my Bride at my side, hallucinating about how much fun I was missin here at the site during my absence...
I got the cold sweats several times, convultions twice, as well as the one recurring nightmare where P-38Pilot came back saying he was now a Navy SEAL with 4 confirmed kills....
I really did infact miss u scumbags...
I got the cold sweats several times, convultions twice, as well as the one recurring nightmare where P-38Pilot came back saying he was now a Navy SEAL with 4 confirmed kills....
I really did infact miss u scumbags...
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
Why the f*ck am I here, Daniel?
Because I like old f*cking airplanes and I f*cking like discussing them with others.
On top of that, my f*cking point of view is just as f*cking valid as any other mother f*cker's is around here.
If you don't f*cking like it, then either don't f*cking read it, or go jump in the f*cking lake.
Elvis
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Well well well as*hole, like to think ur all big and bad all of a sudden??? Ur balls just drop and u want to try them out??? Mommy didnt put out a bowl of cereal for u this morning???
Awww.........
Poor little Elvis....
Heres alittle update, just to clue u in pal..... U barked back at the wrong bull.... This thread aint about what ur undeveloped lack of knowledge thinks is ur favorite, but which was the best.... Ur point of view??? U got 100 posts as*hole, no one here cares about ur point of view... Fu*k u cu* guzzler.... If u took the time to read the entire thread, u might educate urself some on the subject.....
To come into the thread and say u dont give a sh!t about what we say is retarded and plain stupid... Furthermore, by posting what u did, u proved to everyone here what kind of true blooded meatball u really are....
Ur gettting a major infraction for ur outburst.... U wanna lip off like that u can do it in a PM fu*khole.... But seeing how ur banning is right sround the corner, I could care less about ur sorry ass.....
Awww.........
Poor little Elvis....
Heres alittle update, just to clue u in pal..... U barked back at the wrong bull.... This thread aint about what ur undeveloped lack of knowledge thinks is ur favorite, but which was the best.... Ur point of view??? U got 100 posts as*hole, no one here cares about ur point of view... Fu*k u cu* guzzler.... If u took the time to read the entire thread, u might educate urself some on the subject.....
To come into the thread and say u dont give a sh!t about what we say is retarded and plain stupid... Furthermore, by posting what u did, u proved to everyone here what kind of true blooded meatball u really are....
Ur gettting a major infraction for ur outburst.... U wanna lip off like that u can do it in a PM fu*khole.... But seeing how ur banning is right sround the corner, I could care less about ur sorry ass.....
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
lesofprimus said:
...you mean like you did?
Maybe you need to follow your own advice, the next time you wanna pick a fight.
Elvis
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
I dont need to follow my own advice, Im a Mod here and can do what I feel is necessary to keep the balance here.... If I wanted to pick a fight with u, u'd know it moron....
Maybe u can carry on at another web site, cause ur 2 inches from gettin banned....
Maybe u can carry on at another web site, cause ur 2 inches from gettin banned....
Ruedesheim
Recruit
- 2
- Jul 18, 2005
S. Arndt, Schwerin,
Thank you for the Photo of Anton Korol.
I would like to here more about him
Thank you for the Photo of Anton Korol.
I would like to here more about him
bf109 Emil
Airman
Udet in a Ju 87 is hard to contest
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
Elvis (and anione else who doesn't know about Les) DONT MESS WITH LES!
While you shouldn't harass any mod or admin here, Les is far less leinent than the other mods or admin here. (which are generally lax, though they can still bite if provoked) Most forums have (and, arguably need) a "hard @ss" mod that keeps order, and deals with a proportionally higher number of idiots on the sight. (and those who may know what the're talking about but don't know when to shut up or cool down) Responding in kind to a mod's attack on you won't help, argue respectfully, otherwise you may just be falling into a trap. You (Elvis) haven't had any problems on here yet and are a decent guy, and you're fairly new with no dissipliary offenses. (same for me) So don't harass mods (there's no good excuse) and certianly DONT MESS WITH LES! Respect their Authoritah!
But bact to the topic at hand, the Il-2 was a good attack plane with incredible damage resistange and pilot protection. The liquid cooled engine was no more volnerable than a radial in this case due to the placement of the radiator and the amount of armor. Hoever, the rear gunner was of limited value with a decent armament but very volnerable, and most importantly the ship had a volnerable belly mounted oil cooler that could be easily disabled by rifle caliber bullets. (which a radial engine requires as well)
As a tank buster I'd say it was probably better than the Stuka though. (though the Stuka was more maneuverable it was lacking in other areas, and when weighed down with heavy cannons it's performance was definately worse and much more volnerable, but it was a dive bomber first and foremost and decent in this role, but having a radial engine would hae helped)
The Il-10 was excelent, fast, no more iolcooler volnerability, better all around performning, and more capable than the Il-2 in all respects, but it came a bit late to be useful.
On the P-39/P-63, the M4/M10 37mm cannon was not a particularly good anti tank weapon, though not as useless for this as a MK 108 and probably better than most 20mm guns, it wascertainly less useful than the MK 103. But the M9 cannon fitted to the XP-63D was an excelent gun for this role. The M9 could penetrate 60mm of armor at 460 m opposed to the M4's 20 mm. See: The WWII Fighter Gun Debate: Gun Tables
The radiator and oil cooler of these a/c were mounted directly under the engine with air intakes in the wing roots and exhausting along the belly aft of the engine. This was a fairly protected location with the volnerable area made as small as possible, but not much moreso than the P-40. (nd in general the P-40 was a tougher a/c as well, at least compared to the P-39)
While you shouldn't harass any mod or admin here, Les is far less leinent than the other mods or admin here. (which are generally lax, though they can still bite if provoked) Most forums have (and, arguably need) a "hard @ss" mod that keeps order, and deals with a proportionally higher number of idiots on the sight. (and those who may know what the're talking about but don't know when to shut up or cool down) Responding in kind to a mod's attack on you won't help, argue respectfully, otherwise you may just be falling into a trap. You (Elvis) haven't had any problems on here yet and are a decent guy, and you're fairly new with no dissipliary offenses. (same for me) So don't harass mods (there's no good excuse) and certianly DONT MESS WITH LES! Respect their Authoritah!
But bact to the topic at hand, the Il-2 was a good attack plane with incredible damage resistange and pilot protection. The liquid cooled engine was no more volnerable than a radial in this case due to the placement of the radiator and the amount of armor. Hoever, the rear gunner was of limited value with a decent armament but very volnerable, and most importantly the ship had a volnerable belly mounted oil cooler that could be easily disabled by rifle caliber bullets. (which a radial engine requires as well)
As a tank buster I'd say it was probably better than the Stuka though. (though the Stuka was more maneuverable it was lacking in other areas, and when weighed down with heavy cannons it's performance was definately worse and much more volnerable, but it was a dive bomber first and foremost and decent in this role, but having a radial engine would hae helped)
The Il-10 was excelent, fast, no more iolcooler volnerability, better all around performning, and more capable than the Il-2 in all respects, but it came a bit late to be useful.
On the P-39/P-63, the M4/M10 37mm cannon was not a particularly good anti tank weapon, though not as useless for this as a MK 108 and probably better than most 20mm guns, it wascertainly less useful than the MK 103. But the M9 cannon fitted to the XP-63D was an excelent gun for this role. The M9 could penetrate 60mm of armor at 460 m opposed to the M4's 20 mm. See: The WWII Fighter Gun Debate: Gun Tables
The radiator and oil cooler of these a/c were mounted directly under the engine with air intakes in the wing roots and exhausting along the belly aft of the engine. This was a fairly protected location with the volnerable area made as small as possible, but not much moreso than the P-40. (nd in general the P-40 was a tougher a/c as well, at least compared to the P-39)
kool kitty89
Well said. It does no good to carry an argument or a miss-statement that is misunderstood , further than one post. Anything other than that will just start a war. Better yet, is to lay back and let the pieces fall. I speak from experience being a hothead myself...yet a hothead that has learned his lesson.
Face to face we are far less prone to argument because we can see each others facial expressions, body language, and feelings. Message boards leave a lot to be desired when it comes to heated communications.
Well said. It does no good to carry an argument or a miss-statement that is misunderstood , further than one post. Anything other than that will just start a war. Better yet, is to lay back and let the pieces fall. I speak from experience being a hothead myself...yet a hothead that has learned his lesson.
Face to face we are far less prone to argument because we can see each others facial expressions, body language, and feelings. Message boards leave a lot to be desired when it comes to heated communications.
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
But back on the real topic, the Il-2 is intersting as it's veolnerabillity doesn't come from the structure or the engine, the positioning of radiator plus armor makes it about as good as a radial would be. But the oil cooler, which would still be required for a radial engine, was the ship's weak spot, the F4U (which was otherwise an extremly tough plane) had a similar problem with it's wing root oil coolers being taken out with somthing no larger than a rifle calibur round thhis is including the F4U-5. (which did away with most/all of the wood and fabric skinning and control surfaces of earlier models replaced with aluminum surfaces)
I haven't read through the whole thread (which I usualy do before posting), so I'll do that now and get an Idea of where you guys are. (and what's been gone over)
I haven't read through the whole thread (which I usualy do before posting), so I'll do that now and get an Idea of where you guys are. (and what's been gone over)
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
And Les started a poll: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/polls/best-anti-tank-aircraft-world-war-2-a-12055.html
bf109 Emil
Airman
Might be hard for an Allied pilot or craft to compete with these tank destroying/aircraft results..
Hans-Ulrich Rudel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions and successfully attacked many tanks, trains, ships, and other ground targets, claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed - including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery guns, a destroyer, two cruisers, a battleship and 9 aircraft which he shot down[1"
PANZERJÄGER:
From 1942 the Ju-87G-1 was developed to act as an anti-tank aircraft mainly on the eastern front. It was fitted with a 1400hp Junkers Jumo 211J engine. It had a maximum speed of 314km/h, a ceiling of 8000m and a very limited range of only 320km. The reduced speed and range was due to the armour plating installed to protect the pilot and gunner when flying low-level tank busting missions. It was armed with two [Flak-18 37mm cannons] in pods under the wings and a 7.92mm machine gun in the back for the gunner.
Hans-Ulrich Rudel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions and successfully attacked many tanks, trains, ships, and other ground targets, claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed - including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery guns, a destroyer, two cruisers, a battleship and 9 aircraft which he shot down[1"
PANZERJÄGER:
From 1942 the Ju-87G-1 was developed to act as an anti-tank aircraft mainly on the eastern front. It was fitted with a 1400hp Junkers Jumo 211J engine. It had a maximum speed of 314km/h, a ceiling of 8000m and a very limited range of only 320km. The reduced speed and range was due to the armour plating installed to protect the pilot and gunner when flying low-level tank busting missions. It was armed with two [Flak-18 37mm cannons] in pods under the wings and a 7.92mm machine gun in the back for the gunner.
