Best Tank of WW2

MrCreak · Aug 21, 2009

Vincenzo said:
Somebody can check that KV-1 model 1942 was a true tank, and not a missinterpretation of KV-1e?

Wiki

Model 1942 (KV-1C) – Fully cast turret with thicker armour or welded turret with thicker armour, again up-armoured and used an improved engine and the 76 mm ZiS-5 tank gun.

Also:

That on the left is a model 1941 with the up-armored cast turret (sometimes referred as the model 1942 and recognizable for the armor ring around the turret's rear MG);

And that's not even mentioning this or this.

Vincenzo · Aug 21, 2009

MrCreak said:
Wiki

Also:

And that's not even mentioning this or this.

Thank for help but i indeed russian source, too me found some english source, unlucky i don't laod the pic for campare it with a pics of KV-1e

MrCreak · Aug 22, 2009

KV-1C Model 1942 (KV-1S in English).
Not to be confused with the KV-1s (s = skorostny/ fast).

Vincenzo · Aug 23, 2009

MrCreak said:
KV-1C Model 1942 (KV-1S in English).
Not to be confused with the KV-1s (s = skorostny/ fast).

the page that you linked it's for KB-1c called KV-1s in latin letters it's sure a model 1942 but was not a over armoured KV, do you do confusion?

PJay · Sep 3, 2009

No mention of the German Mk4? Upgradeable, fought through most of the war.
On the subject of the Tiger, I seem to recall the Syrians still had some in '67 but memory is fickle.

Juha · Sep 3, 2009

Hello PJay
IIRC Syrians used some engineless Pz IVs as pillboxes in '67

Juha

Tzaw1 · Sep 3, 2009

Why KV-1 and why not IS-2?

Generally there is the bad question. IMHO you cannot say which from them was best, because was every from other tale.
Nobody tries to ask, whether is better: Porsche, Bentley or Mack.
Only two comaparable are Sherman and T-34.
In general categories Sherman is better. In special conditions of the eastern front and the war economy USSR - T-34.

BTW Mechanical reliability of T-34, at least to 1943, was plaintive.

Vincenzo · Sep 3, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
Only two comaparable are Sherman and T-34.
In general categories Sherman is better. In special conditions of the eastern front and the war economy USSR - T-34.

BTW Mechanical reliability of T-34, at least to 1943, was plaintive.

why the sherman is best of T-34?
T-34 had best manouvrability
T-34 was best protection
T-34 had best firepower, idk for optics
T-34 was cheap
T-34 came 2 years before of sherman

Vincenzo · Sep 3, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
Why KV-1 and why not IS-2?

if you talking in my comparison, was on tank in use when came the Tiger, the IS-2 was not in use in autumn '42

Tzaw1 · Sep 4, 2009

Vincenzo said:
the IS-2 was not in use in autumn '42

King Tiger (Tiger II) too

Vincenzo · Sep 4, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
King Tiger (Tiger II) too

i write "if you talking in my comparison", where is the Koenig in my comparison??

Tzaw1 · Sep 4, 2009

Sorry, naturally not Your comparison, but original carman1877's.
The answer on your question from post #48 later.
Armour of KV-1S (1942)

Vincenzo · Sep 4, 2009

i knew this pics there are also per not fast KV-1 but te trouble it's the uparmoured KV-1 of '42 if it's a real or a missunderstand

Soren · Sep 4, 2009

Even the early KV-1 was very heavily armoured for its time, a complete shock to the Germans as it appeared in 1941. It was lucky for the Germans that it didn't have very good optics plus a poor crew comfort and organization, but these were the things the Soviets sacreficed in order to keep the weight low.

Vincenzo · Sep 4, 2009

Soren said:
Even the early KV-1 was very heavily armoured for its time, a complete shock to the Germans as it appeared in 1941. It was lucky for the Germans that it didn't have very good optics plus a poor crew comfort and organization, but these were the things the Soviets sacreficed in order to keep the weight low.

True, KV-1 was surely the best armoured tank almost until Tiger came

Tzaw1 · Sep 4, 2009

Vincenzo said:
but te trouble it's the uparmoured KV-1 of '42 if it's a real or a missunderstand

To the best of my belief, there were three versions uparmoured KV-1.
KV-1 mod 1939/1940 with screwed armour plates 25-35 mm. This modification probably went only from LTZ in Leningrad. Only known photos are from Leningrad and North-West Front.
KV-1 mod 1941 had the armour strenghtened with welded plates 25 mm. In hull only in the crew section.
Turret was in two completations: welded or casted. On drawings thickness of casted armour is appointed with russian letter л (latin l).
KV-1 mod 1942 from ChTZ factory. Here was a new cast turret with thickness around the turret ring up to 110-120 mm. There were small modicfications in turret structure too and small armoured collar around the rear-turret machine gun. Later were modifications of hull and road wheels.
Next version of KV was KV-1S.
English info you can find in "Tankograd - Soviet Special No 2003. KV-1. Soviet Heavy Tank of WWII - Late Variants". Its bi-lingual german-english.
Russian info in "KV-1. Mashiny pozdnih vypuskov" and "Otyechestvyennye broniyrovannye mashiny. XX wyek", vol 2: "1941-1945".

Vincenzo · Sep 4, 2009

beautiful Tzaw1. a bit different form what i found in internet but it's. have you info on production time and/or first use in combat?

Tzaw1 · Sep 5, 2009

KV-1 mod 1939/1940 with screwed armour plates

Decision about production of additional plates at end July 1941. Production since 1st June. Information about factories are unclear. Probably armour screens for new tanks were assembled directly in LKZ (Leningradski Kirovski Zavod) and for repaired tanks in works No 371 (LMZ - Leningrad Metal Works). But in factories did not survive any documents. Probably this programme was finished in August 1941.
None data about quantity and use in combat.
The unofficial mark was KV-1E (russian "Э", from "ekran" = "screen").

KV-1 mod 1941 had the armour strenghtened with welded plates 25 mm.

Production: July 1941 - August 1942, 2723 tanks from LKZ (444, production finished October 19, 1941) and ChTZ.

KV-1 mod 1942 from ChTZ factory

Production: January-August 1942 in ChKZ (factory No 200 - ChZTM) and UZTM (factory No 501) works. Turret from UZTM was a bit wider.

Authors of "Otyechestvyennye broniyrovannye mashiny. XX wyek" do not differentiate the mod. 1941 and mod. 1942. For them this is the same version with different turrets.

Vincenzo · Sep 5, 2009

Спасибо!
if i understand the mod. '42 have the hull of mod. '41 (that of drawing) and a new turret that have 110/120 mm of armour, you can confim?

Tzaw1 · Sep 5, 2009

Vincenzo said:
Спасибо!
if i understand the mod. '42 have the hull of mod. '41 (that of drawing) and a new turret that have 110/120 mm of armour, you can confim?

Yes. No.
It seems that actually hull was the same with some small modifications introduced gradually.

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