Best USAAF fighter for escort missions over Japan

[Milosh]

BTW, the IL-2 also had an inline engine. That plane was famous for holding battle damage. Was it's radiator much different than that of the P-51?

Yes as its radiator was surrounded by armour plate.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The only comment that I disagree with (mildly) is the 'impossible' nature of validating ground destruction. The 8th AF Intelligence Officers collaborated with the pilots in methodical ways to sort chaos into tangible 'belief's'. The pilots, as a briefed process began to assign one of the high cover pilots to turn on gun camera film and take pictures of the field they strafed - for those missions that had planned high cover. Burning aircraft were the only targets permitted as 'destroyed'

Overclaims existed as a matter of course for many specific airfield scores but more on an individual basis rather than aggregate for large 'bags' primarily.

The intelligence officers broke the daily claims into locations of the claimed aircraft to assist in sorting out the individual gun camera film and tried to match it with the film of the airfield. The primary purpose was to attempt to sort out 'shared' claims into a.) assignment of different pilots shooting as same aircraft which at one time in the process would burn or blow up, and by virtue of the 'mapping' process, be assigned to an X' on the master location drawing by the IO's. That document and the gun camera film would travel, along with the local pilot preliminary award in the Mission Summary Report, to 8th AF Victory Credit Board for review and final disposition.

The mere fact that causing a fire was the minimum requirement for a locally approved Destroyed claim was very serious reason for belief of that aircraft was not likely return to service resulted in high probability of an observed aircraft to truly be destroyed or >60% damaged which was LW criteria for scrapping it..

It wasn't perfect but there were, ONTH, many aircraft that were damaged very badly but did not burn for lack of fuel. Me 262s fit in that category most of all.

Specifically if the target didn't burn or blow up it would get only a Damaged claim so 8th AF rules for air to ground victory credits were sound if not perfect.

I was distracted after my last post while looking for a match to clear the air, but the answer to the question 'Do I have the data for the number of Mustangs and Thunderbolts which did not return for 'unknown' reasons?' is yes as I examined every one of the MACR's at NARA and HRC which later went to Form3'. As a 'number cruncher' I carefully sorted out the 'unknowns' into 'last seen strafing' with the LW KUJ reports (yes I read and recorded what they stated when available (mostly complete) to note what the reporting LW report said about time and location. I have a spreadsheet which carries the 'unknown' category into multiple probability categories for 'likely cause'

Gee Bill, I think if McNamara did that much research with his numbers Hanoi would be named Thieu City today!

 

[drgondog]

Lol Joe - may that sonofab-tch roast in hell and have visitations from all the Thud and F-4 and A-4 drivers that died over RP 6..
Not to mention all the Takhli and Korat warriors that have died and are dying from Agent Orange showers..

I'm with two 355th warriors tonight that were guests of the Hilton for six years..

 

[parsifal]

I'm with two 355th warriors tonight that were guests of the Hilton for six years..

Just reading that makes me stop and think for a second or three. How does someone get through something like that

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Takhli and Korat warriors that have died and are dying from Agent Orange showers

My brother right now....

 

[drgondog]

Joe - there are no words of consolation. Fingers crossed

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe - there are no words of consolation. Fingers crossed

Thanks Bill - it's been within the past year or so it's really affected him. He's been visiting the VA but I could see and hear the deterioration in his physical and mental health. Despite this, his spirits are high and still remains very proud of his service.

 

[drgondog]

We have quite a few Takhli vets that are in stage 3-4 carcinoma's as well as many that have passed over past 5 years.

 

[parsifal]

Joe, I dont know what to say. I am very saddened by that news.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe, I dont know what to say. I am very saddened by that news.

No prob, apprecite the kind words - he's a fighter and will continue to fight to the bitter end - as he always said, "I'm not afraid of dying, I'll go to heaven, I've already been to hell."

 

[RpR]

There is distinct odor of gaseous emissions in the air.. it is easier to exit stage right than joust with it.. anybody have a match?

 

[BiffF15]

FlyboyJ,
I'm saddened to hear what you and your brother are going through! May God be with you and yours!
Biff

 

[vikingBerserker]

Dam Joe, that just fricken sucks. My thoughts are with both of you gents.

 

[OldSkeptic]

My brother right now....

My deepest sympathies, and best hopes. So many of the people that served there (from all countries), and of course the people living there, have suffered that and other terrible health effects. What were they thinking......

 

[tomo pauk]

What other people said here, Joe - my deepest sympathies.

 

[snelson]

Joe, i hope things work out for your family.


i'm sorry that it took me a while to find that article. it was in a special edition from Flight Journal about the P-38 written by Barrett Tillman a Lieutenant Joe Foster flying with the 475th fighter group. Flying a P-38L he lost an engine to a Japanese fighter over Balikpapan Borneo, then made an 852 mile trip home mostly over water. i don't know it the details are correct but story's like these fill me with awe.