Best World War II Aircraft?

P-40K-5 · Oct 7, 2010

tail end charlie said:
P-40K-5

It makes me wonder why those fools in procurement bothered with the Thunderbolt hellcat corsair tempest and spitfire

contracts, contracts, and yes.. contracts. the P-40 could have easily been retrofitted with a
1800hp Aliison V-1710 supercharged and turbocharged engine. but the USAAF put the
Kybosh on that. Curtiss did build a few anyways. the P-40J I believe. its speed and ROC was
well, remarkable. thunderbolt came late, ditto corsair, which was designed for a specific roll.
I really don't care about the Spits. if the Germans finished what they started by destroying
all the british radar sites. the Spit would have been moot.

tail end charlie · Oct 7, 2010

FLYBOYJ said:
Actually the C-130 is slowly closing in however I don't believe it will ever reach the C-47's greatness as it never really influenced civilian aviation.

Every kid want to be a fighter pilot but it can be a rough life. I know many C-130 drivers who had a pretty charmed career without the danger and stress of participating in combat.

I applied to the RAF when I was 16, they told me to get a degree and then apply, fair enough pilots need huge knowledge but after getting a degree you then go through a selection process. I dont know how many the RAF take on now year on year but I think there is more chance of having a hit record

FLYBOYJ · Oct 7, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
contracts, contracts, and yes.. contracts. the P-40 could have easily been retrofitted with a
1800hp Aliison V-1710 supercharged and turbocharged engine. but the USAAF put the
Kybosh on that. Curtiss did build a few anyways. the P-40J I believe. its speed and ROC was
well, remarkable. thunderbolt came late, ditto corsair, which was designed for a specific roll.
I really don't care about the Spits. if the Germans finished what they started by destroying
all the british radar sites. the Spit would have been moot.

Sorry, but you weren't doing much more with the P-40 airframe. Curtiss tried with the P-40Q and offered the US government the world and pissed it all away. The P-60? Curtiss wasn't exactly the best defense contractor during WW2 and paid for it in the post war years.

P-40K-5 · Oct 7, 2010

FLYBOYJ said:
Sorry, but you weren't doing much more with the P-40 airframe. Curtiss tried with the P-40Q and offered the US government the world and pissed it all away. The P-60? Curtiss wasn't exactly the best defense contractor during WW2 and paid for it in the post war years.

yep. like I said, contracts. they fiddled a bit with the airframes. but felt that the 5 spar wing, amour and amourment, and sustained 9+g capability was a good selling point. North American used (or
mabey "borrowed"?) the curtiss data for the devolopment of there P-51.

tail end charlie · Oct 7, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
I really don't care about the Spits. if the Germans finished what they started by destroying
all the british radar sites. the Spit would have been moot.

Err doesnt that mean North Africa would be moot too, you just talked one of your theatres off the board, scrub any talk about N Africa and you only got it there in 1941.

BTW the BoB was won by the hurricane in the main.

Personally I think without the Merlin and PW double wasp we would have been goosed regardless of what airframes were designed

Civettone · Oct 7, 2010

But again ... New Zealand would be lost ??????

Kris

Civettone · Oct 7, 2010

But quite a looker that XP-40Q. Although it was inferior to the P-47 and P-51 it seems that it was good enough to continue production at the end of 1944...

Kris

P-40K-5 · Oct 7, 2010

tail end charlie said:
Err doesnt that mean North Africa would be moot too, you just talked one of your theatres off the board, scrub any talk about N Africa and you only got it there in 1941.

BTW the BoB was won by the hurricane in the main.

Personally I think without the Merlin and PW double wasp we would have been goosed regardless of what airframes were designed

and what was 112 and other British squads using? P-40's. Spits flew in joint operations with
the USAAF. flying top cover. whilst P-40's did the escorts. when the P-40's tangled with
109's, there were very little E/A's left when the spits got there.
looks to me that N.Africa is on the board. read: Palm Sunday Massacre

FLYBOYJ · Oct 7, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
North American used (or
mabey "borrowed"?) the curtiss data for the devolopment of there P-51.

Proof???

tail end charlie · Oct 7, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
looks to me that N.Africa is on the board.

If you disregard the Battle of Britain which the P40 wasnt available for and couldnt take part in anyway then North Africa doesnt exist as a theatre of operations, unless the USA attempts a landing in Africa direct from the USA.

The P40 looks like an early Mustang because they both have an allison engine the wings which were the secret of the mustang were completely different. Put a merlin in a P 40 and you still cant fly to Berlin.

P-40K-5 · Oct 8, 2010

tail end charlie said:
If you disregard the Battle of Britain which the P40 wasnt available for and couldnt take part in anyway then North Africa doesnt exist as a theatre of operations, unless the USA attempts a landing in Africa direct from the USA.

ok, what? the US would have went to N.Africa (MTO) regardless of whether or not the British were thier. as far as P-40 use during the BoB, look up 403 squadron. hafta find it in my notes to confirm.

tail end charlie said:
The P40 looks like an early Mustang because they both have an allison engine the wings which were the secret of the mustang were completely different. Put a merlin in a P 40 and you still cant fly to Berlin.

Actually, its the early P-51's that looked like P-40's. didn't say the P-51 was a dirct copy. but used
Curtiss Data for it's development. Merlins did NOT perform any better in the P-40. but Merlins were
very tempermantal, and hard to service when used in the P-40.

Proof? hmmm wait for the book.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 8, 2010

Well, after following this thread for the last few pages, I still don't see how anyone can even think of the P-40 as the "Best World War II Aircraft".

Why? Well simply there were better aircraft out there. If we are going to talk fighters there was the Spitfire, P-51, Bf 109, Fw 190 just to name a few. I also question the fact that it made a serious contribution to the actually defeating the Luftwaffe in the overall scheme of things. It was the P-51 that took the fight to the Germans. The P-40 simply could not have kept up at the altitudes that were needed, nor did it have the range to do so. Not trying to diminish the P-40 as it was a great aircraft, but it was outclassed and outdated. I agree with Joe that it was underrated however.

My vote for best still goes with the C-47. Absolutely amazing aircraft that made a great contribution to the war effort and is still being used around the world today.

tail end charlie · Oct 8, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
ok, what? the US would have went to N.Africa (MTO) regardless of whether or not the British were thier. as far as P-40 use during the BoB, look up 403 squadron. hafta find it in my notes to confirm.

Actually, its the early P-51's that looked like P-40's. didn't say the P-51 was a dirct copy. but used
Curtiss Data for it's development. Merlins did NOT perform any better in the P-40. but Merlins were
very tempermantal, and hard to service when used in the P-40.

The US couldnt go to N Africa until the US entered the war by which time it would be game over.

from wiki
RAF Spitfires used in the theater operated at heights around 30,000 ft (9,100 m), while the Allison engine, with its single-stage, low altitude rated supercharger, worked best at 15,000 ft (4,600 m) or lower. When the Tomahawk was used by Allied units based in the UK from August 1941, this limitation relegated the Tomahawk to low-level reconnaissance and only one squadron, No. 414 Squadron RCAF was used in the fighter role. Subsequently, the British Air Ministry deemed the P-40 completely unsuitable for the theater. P-40 squadrons from mid-1942 re-equipped with aircraft such as Mustangs.
unquote

The P-40 has a chin radiator, round tail and appears to have more dihedral. It has the same passing resemblance to a P51 as it does to any monoplane, the fact that it was replaced by mustangs says it all.
The Avro Anson had already earned its fearsome reputation for downing Bf109s long before the P40 put its head above the parapet.

tail end charlie · Oct 8, 2010

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
My vote for best still goes with the C-47. Absolutely amazing aircraft that made a great contribution to the war effort and is still being used around the world today.

Yeh OK the C47 was not bad, but it didnt strike fear in the hearts of the LW like an Avro Anson.

I am laughing like a drain even typing that BS

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 8, 2010

tail end charlie said:
Yeh OK the C47 was not bad, but it didnt strike fear in the hearts of the LW like an Avro Anson.

I am laughing like a drain even typing that BS

There is more to winning a war than a slinging bullets.

P-40K-5 · Oct 8, 2010

tail end charlie said:
the fact that it was replaced by mustangs says it all

how could the P-40 be replaced when it was used and produced till the end of the war?
near the very end it was used mainly for ground attack, which it did very well since the
begining.. hence its "B-40" nickname.

the Bf/Me 109F/G's on paper was a superior aircraft. yet the P-40 held its own against
them very well. even shot down quite a few German aces flying the F/G's.

funny thing is, even if you take the lowest P-40 kill ratio, its still about 3:1 in favor of the
P-40. and thats air to air.. not including ground kills.

I dunno why every time the P-40 is vindicated in some small way, people have to
jump all over it in a bad way. oh well, I can see this is going to turn into a train-wreck
fast so I'll return to base and go have a beer.

tail end charlie · Oct 8, 2010

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
There is more to winning a war than a slinging bullets.

The big advantage of the anson was it had space for Jesus in the co pilots seat and all his disciples behind, you sure need it trying to take out a Bf109 with a single .303 in a twin engined transport sporting a total of 700 Bhp

tail end charlie · Oct 8, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
how could the P-40 be replaced when it was used and produced till the end of the war?

In the text I quoted the British Air Ministry said the P40 was unsuitable and it was replaced by Mustangs (and others) please read it after enjoying a beer.

The Hurricane ended in the ground attack role at which it was a good plane. I would never say it was a great plane although it had many points which were better than a spitfire and made more kills in the BoB.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 8, 2010

P-40K-5 said:
I can see this is going to turn into a train-wreck
fast so I'll return to base and go have a beer.

Why because no one shares the same opinion as you? That's pretty weak.

tail end charlie · Oct 8, 2010

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Why because no one shares the same opinion as you? That's pretty weak.

He just has a nark on because I got the Anson first and he has to settle for second best

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