lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Yes, Allied pilots include Soviet/Russian pilots as well....
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Yes, Allied pilots include Soviet/Russian pilots as well....
The Soviets attacked Poland when it was under control of the Germans, unless theres something I missed here.....
Erich Rudorffer, a 222 victory ace was the highest '190 ace in the Luftwaffe. Rudorffer destroyed 138 aircraft on the Focke-Wulf, 13 in 17 minutes on 11 October 1943.
The Soviets attacked Poland when it was under control of the Germans, unless theres something I missed here.....
Did the USA/England/Canada invade France???
No they did not declare war on the Soviets. That is a good thing as well because they certainly would not have been able to fight the combined forces of the Soviets and the Germans.
Besides, I'm not sure that reckless is the right word. If he could fly into a wing of 6 Western planes and shoot them all down in a few minutes, then is that a case of recklessness, or is it a case of audacious skill and courage?
I can imagine that they did declare war on the Soviets, but then rescinded it as soon as Hitler attacked Russia. Bigger things have been made to disappear from the history books, especially when concerning the Soviet Union.
P1234567890 said:For example, the U.S. and Great Britain invaded the Soviet Union after World War I, and yet that little fact seems to have disappeared from history.
No they did not declare war on Russia and they did not rescind a declaration of war.
If there had been a declaration of war it would have been announced and common history today. No declaration was announced. Britain and France protested the Soveit Invasion and condemned it but nothing else.
What are you talking about????
You're probably right, but this means that Britain and France did not live up to their treaty with Poland, at least not in spirit.
P1234567890 said:It's true: The U.S. invaded the Soviet Union after World War I. It was done in the context of the Russian Civil War. The Western Allies fought alongside the 'White Russians' against the Bolsheviks.
Weird History 101 - Google Book Search
See page 267.
Here is another good reference: Russian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And another: Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The fact that the U.S. and Britain sent so many troops deep into Russia in order to fight against Communism is one of the main reasons why the Communists were so paranoid about the West for the next six decades.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not pointing out any of this in order to garner sympathy for Communism. I think that it's terrible and that the Western Allies probably did the right thing at the time.
But I do think that it's very interesting that an event which really happened has been so well censored and forgotten.
This is why I am asking suspicious questions about whether or not the Allies declared war on the Soviets after they attacked Poland.
In any case, this is all very off-topic. I don't know what the rules are around here about bringing up topics which are irrelevant to the original intent of the thread, and if this is a big no-no, then I apologize.
When Adler asked if u wanted ur vote changed from Gabreski to Urbanowicz, u said yes, which means u voted for him.... Nationistic pride is great and all, but be realistic... Voting for something simply for a nations pride is dumb and uneducated, to say the least.... If u dont know enough about the subject, why fu*kin vote???
Same remark as to P1234567890, I voted on him even though I don't think he was the best, if you have a problem with that, I can't help you.
Oh really dumb-ass??? I guess that since my Grandfather was an Ace, and I grew up in the Black Sheep Community with other Aces, including Boyington, I guess I am clueless... Or how about the conversations Ive had with Galland or Yeager or Gabreski or Vejtasa or etc etc... I guess I have no idea on the subject.... U had best keep ur fu*kin moth shut moron or I will break it off in ur ass.... Dont piss of a Moderator, ever heard of that???
You misunderstood me, P1234567890 pointed it earlier.
Then why should ur opinion in this thread have any bearing??? U are un-educated in this topic, so maybe u should shut ur yap and read what others who DO have the experience on the subject are saying....
I said that I'm not able to, but not becasue of lack of knowledge but because I don't know what criteria I should use.
Then u think wrong.... 9 outta 10 times, the more experienced pilot will take it to the greenie, in a very bad way... Ask the Russian VVS about that, would u.... And always is a strong word however, since there are a few instances where a rookie took out an accomplished Experten, but they are VERY very limited....
And besides the point, over 75% of all shootdowns were not dogfights, but bounces where the victim had no idea he was flying straight into an Aces gunsight....
Wow, isn't it funny how people love to vote patriotically... Come on, you can't *seriously* think that Illu Juutilainen was the *best* pilot of the whole war! You're just saying that because you're Finnish!
No they did not live up to there treaty at all. Did they invade Germany or come to the aid of the Polish?
No...
And why not? This is the first round an Juutilainen was a great pilot, so he belongs in the next one.
And about patriotically votes: I'm sure there are probably many pilots who could be up there, but didn't make a name for themselves because the didn't get the chance. And if their countrymen wouldn't mention them, nobody would never know who they were.
I would choose Gerben Sonderman (see my port 50 in this thread) if he were on the list, only to let you know about him.
And remember, you're here to learn, not to try press your believes on others.
Why not? Because Juutilainen wasn't the best pilot of the war by ANY stretch of the imagination, and voting for him the best just because of what it said on his passport is completely uncompelling.
]
Then go ahead and say, "Hey, check out so-and-so; he was a great pilot!". That doesn't mean that you have to vote for him as being the BEST pilot ever!
How on earth would you know? Maybe he was better than any of them, but he didn't fly in the war for more then 4 days, so hadn't a chance to prove himself. I'm not saying he was, but I'm only showing you that there can be different ways of looking at "best".I'm all for learning. I encourage you to encourage us to learn about pilots like Sonderman. But it's absurd to suggest that he was the best fighter pilot of the war!
If you think most kills means best then that is your opinion. Let others have their own. People tend to pick their heroes from their own country, I don't think you should judge that here. If you have a problem with that, just keep it for yourself. If you can prove someone was a bad pilot, please do that with facts.I am here to learn, but I simultaneously find it to be absurd when people vote for someone who has one tenth as many kills as the top Germans as the best pilot ever, and ESPECIALLY if they do it just because the guy came from their country!
I think I did in post 50, so yes. But remember, "best" is subjective at best, please let other people have their own opinion.Do you understand that you can tell us about a pilot without automatically claiming that he was the best fighter ace of the war?