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They were also short ranged for supposed commerce raiding. According to Wikipedia, Scharnhorst's max range was 7,100 nmi 19 knots, and even less for Gneisenau at 6,200 nmi. This is not useful endurance for commerce raiding where you want to disappear into the Atlantic or Indian Oceans to prey on moderately-defended convoys. Only the MTO-focused Littorio class has lower endurance. For comparison on endurance of other pre-war battleship designs: KGV class 15,600 nmi at 10 knots; North Carolina class 17,450 nmi at 15 knots.The Scharnhorsts were somewhat mismatched. Overkill as just a cruiser-killer against treaty cruisers, a bit weak against the Dunkerques they were designed as counters against due to the small guns, and weak enough against a treaty battleship that the RN felt comfortable sending a single one against the Scharnhorst at North Cape.
The Scharnhorsts need reliable diesel-powered cruising engines combined with turbines for speed
Such comparisons with differences in speed are meaningless and in practice these figures bore no relationship to those achieved in service. A few things to point out.They were also short ranged for supposed commerce raiding. According to Wikipedia, Scharnhorst's max range was 7,100 nmi 19 knots, and even less for Gneisenau at 6,200 nmi. This is not useful endurance for commerce raiding where you want to disappear into the Atlantic or Indian Oceans to prey on moderately-defended convoys. Only the MTO-focused Littorio class has lower endurance. For comparison on endurance of other pre-war battleship designs: KGV class 15,600 nmi at 10 knots; North Carolina class 17,450 nmi at 15 knots.
The Scharnhorsts need reliable diesel-powered cruising engines combined with turbines for speed and a sizable fuel load, hotel services (food, water production, etc.), and efficient displacement and hull form to give them >18,000 nmi range at >12 knots. It's approx 11k nmi (38 days at 12 knots) from Kiel to Ceylon via the Cape of Good Hope. German or cooperative neutral supply ships can meet her in the Indian Ocean to top up.
It's saying that turf wars are inherent in how pretty much any large-scale organization is setup. It's really up to the top management to monitor and intervene and keep down the turf wars to a manageable level so that the organization (in this case, a military as a whole) serves the purpose for which it exists. It seems Germany was doing that part quite poorly. That, as such, is not uncommon in dictatorships, as they often use a divide-and-conquer strategy with turf wars and competition for favors from the Great Leader as a way to control their underlings and keep them loyal.
As for arguments for keeping all aviation in the hands of the Air Force:
These arguments apply better for something like WWII Germany which might need a modest number of land-based maritime patrol and strike aircraft. For something like the USN which by itself is bigger than most countries Air Forces, the economy of scale benefits are marginal at that size, carrier aviation is substantially different from land-based, and the carriers operate in areas which land-based aviation cannot.
- Keeping all aviation in the hands of those who have the most experience in procuring and operating aircraft.
- Economies of scale in things like flight schools, maintenance etc.
- Procurement experience. The Air Force might not have as good an understanding of the Navy's needs as the Navy itself, but they probably understand aircraft better.
- Building bigger strike packages. You might get better results if you have, say, 2N dive bombers hitting an industrial installation today, and the same 2N aircraft bombing shipping tomorrow, than by having those strikes with 1N aircraft and the other half taking a day off as it's not their turf.
So like I said in a previous message, I don't know if the KM would have been better off with control of their own aviation or not. The fundamental problem was the relationship between the KM and LW, and that the high command (ultimately, Hitler himself) did little to fix it. Had they had their own aviation, the problems in getting the LW to do operations that helped the KM would have been replaced by other problems.
Nicknames in ServiceThe Royal Navy built two hydrogen peroxide fueled submarines after WWII
Two more were planned. They were to be named Brighter and Whiter.Nicknames in Service
HMS Explorer = Exploder
HMS Excalibur = Excruciator
Hitler suspended the war reparations in 1933 and had no intention of ever repaying it.Also, seems much of the German economic rise and rearmament miracle of the 1930'ies was a castle built on sand. Had they not started the war when they did, they would have defaulted on their foreign debts and the German economy would have collapsed
Two more were planned. They were to be named Brighter and Whiter.
Problem 1: Diesel engines (the 30s MAN ones) burn diesel. The boilers burn fuel oil. Neither may use the other fuel. How much of each to do you load into your CODAS ship? What happens if you get it wrong?? e.g. cruiser Karlsruhe could travel 18,000nm@10kts if all 1,350 tons were diesel, but max speed would be 10.5kts versus 7,200nm@17kts if all fuel oil. But range drops to only 2,760nm@15kts under wartime conditions*They were also short ranged for supposed commerce raiding. According to Wikipedia, Scharnhorst's max range was 7,100 nmi 19 knots, and even less for Gneisenau at 6,200 nmi. This is not useful endurance for commerce raiding where you want to disappear into the Atlantic or Indian Oceans to prey on moderately-defended convoys. Only the MTO-focused Littorio class has lower endurance. For comparison on endurance of other pre-war battleship designs: KGV class 15,600 nmi at 10 knots; North Carolina class 17,450 nmi at 15 knots.
The Scharnhorsts need reliable diesel-powered cruising engines combined with turbines for speed and a sizable fuel load, hotel services (food, water production, etc.), and efficient displacement and hull form to give them >18,000 nmi range at >12 knots. It's approx 11k nmi (38 days at 12 knots) from Kiel to Ceylon via the Cape of Good Hope. German or cooperative neutral supply ships can meet her in the Indian Ocean to top up.
Hitler suspended the war reparations in 1933 and had no intention of ever repaying it.
France's quick surrender must have emboldened them. Poland bravely fought the might of both Germany and the USSR for 26 days. Meanwhile the seemingly world military power of France lasted only nine days more. Tell Mussolini to remain neutral so to avoid distractions in North Africa and the Mediterranean, and don't declare war on the USA in Dec 1941 (the staff at the German embassy in Washington who understood US resolve and capability must have thought Hitler was insane). Then, go for it all against the USSR.
But what could match the poetic sweetness of "Whistling Sh!# Can"?I love RN nicknames, they're much wittier than our American nicks for the most part ... "Swayback Maru" and "Dry I" excepted. But for the conversion carriers, "Curious", "Outrageous", and "Uproarious", that's golden stuff there.
But what could match the poetic sweetness of "Whistling Sh!# Can"?
Problem 1: Diesel engines (the 30s MAN ones) burn diesel. The boilers burn fuel oil. Neither may use the other fuel.
My 64 Reichsmarks question: We know Raeder was planning Panzerschiffe F (at least) under Versailles to be a treaty cruiser (8" guns/10k tons). How is Panzerschiffe D, even in original form, not superior?
But there was no way Germany could defeat the UK militarily. But there is a way to take Britain out of the war and free up all forces for Barbarossa. 22 June 1940 Armistice is signed with France, but with a twist of Otto Von Bismarck's making. Germany demands that France become neutral in exchange for a complete German withdrawal from French territory. No Vichy or puppet government, France can govern how they'd like as long as the country remains neutral. France agrees, and German forces march out of the country on 1 July 1940. A week later Hitler orders a halt to all Luftwaffe strikes on the UK as well as ordering the U-Boat and surface fleets to return to base, followed by Germany offering an armistice with Britain. To sweeten the deal, Germany makes a resource supply deal with the government in Oslo and withdraws all German forces from Norway. With a now neutral and free France in Europe, the British people will be wondering why they're still fighting Germany, and Churchill's hold on government becomes shaky. By the autumn of 1940 Churchill's governing coalition falls and Labour led by Clement Attlee takes over, accepting the Armistice with Germany.Attacking Russia with the UK still standing was Hitler's stupidest decision. He committed at that point to a two-front war.
Bunker C is about one grade thinner than asphalt. Slight exaggerationAs for diesel and heavy fuel oil, post-war low and medium speed diesel are able to use it. In the interwar era there were low speed diesels running on HFO, but I'm not aware of any medium speed diesels using it. Not sure what innovation was needed to enable that, maybe more efficient filters?
Why wouldn't the boilers be able to use diesel? I would imagine they are quite flexible? Fuel oil would be preferred due to cost, but I don't see why diesel wouldn't work in a pinch?
As for diesel and heavy fuel oil, post-war low and medium speed diesel are able to use it. In the interwar era there were low speed diesels running on HFO, but I'm not aware of any medium speed diesels using it. Not sure what innovation was needed to enable that, maybe more efficient filters?
If you plan to have a flex fuel (HFO and Diesel) in your boiler, it is relatively easy.There is no particular difficulty using diesel in ship's boilers. It was actually tested in larger ship arrangements (before WWII), and done occasionally in smaller combatants. My understanding is that the only needed modifications could be done relatively easily, by the ship's crew. I am not sure if I am using the correct terms here (it has been a long time since I read about this) but the fuel sprayers (nozzles?) in the boilers had to be changed out, and the fuel flow rate had to be adjusted. IIRC that is all as far as using diesel in boilers that usually used bunker fuel. I do not recall any mention of different filtering being required - I think the sprayers (nozzle) openings were not small enough for that to be necessary.
But when D class is being laid down, for all intents and purposes, even when Scharnhorst is laid down there isn't an AGNA. There might never be an AGNA in a better naval strategy and/or the class restrictions might be done much differently e.g. much lower carrier limit (say 25%) for higher light cruiser limit (say 45%).Presumably you're angling for something different, but the obvious answers would be
- Per AGNA the D class would eat into capital ship tonnage, and they wanted to reserve that tonnage for "real" battleships?
- In the same sense a fast battleship is superior to a cruiser. But also more expensive to build and run. Of course, the Hippers ran way past the treaty tonnage limit, so the D class would presumably not be that much more expensive.
With 20/20 hindsight, we know going to war against Stalin was stupid decision, but ~25 years earlier, the Kaiser went to war against the Czar and 18 months later had a peace treaty in hand, with Russian paying huge penalty.With Britain undefeated, you've not only got their blockade, you've just cut off your own source for grain, oil, and links to the Far East for rubber.
Attacking Russia with the UK still standing was Hitler's stupidest decision. He committed at that point to a two-front war.