Bf-109 with Rifle

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Micdrow, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    OK here's one for the experts out there and wondered what you think. The tropical version of the Bf-109 sent to Africa had a rifle in the fuselage in case the pilot was shot down for self defense. In ways I thought it was a good idea but also a waste of war materials at the same time. In Russia I think it would have been a good idea but as far as I know it was never used in Russia. Thoughts and ideas on the subject.

    Also any body out there have a real picture of the installation of the weapon.

    Thanks in advance.
     

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  2. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Hi!
    I saw a one photo with Mauser carabine mounted on Bf 109, but don't remember where :( If I find them, I'll put them here.
    AFAIK the Messerschmitts in Troop versions were used in Africa as well in Italy and Finland.
     
  3. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    Here,

    [​IMG]

    via 109G manual.
     
  4. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Thanks guys,
     
  5. genkideskan

    genkideskan Member

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    Herman Göring was an passionated hunter. It is a little known fact, that high quality shotguns and a combination hunting gun with two shot and an rifled barrel, the so called Luftwaffendrilling M/ 30,where made for the Luftwaffe. So shot down bombercrew couldt shot dears ect. to survive. Even the Luftwaffen ammunition regulation L.Dv. 4000/ 10 handle this shot and hunting ammo. Gun and ammo where supplied to tropical or longe range raids.
     

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  6. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I think it is a good idea. There were many times that I wished I had a rifle instead of my 9mm if I had gone down.
     
  7. Cyrano

    Cyrano Member

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    #7 Cyrano, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
    [​IMG]
     
  8. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Genkideskan, coul you post a photo of Luftwaffendrilling M/30. I'm very interesting to see this weapon.
     
  9. genkideskan

    genkideskan Member

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    Here is the aluminum shipping box with manual and equipment for the Sauer

    M/ 30 Luftwaffendrilling as delivered to the squads.


    .
     

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  10. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Thanks a lot! :D
     
  11. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    I thought I read some where that bomber crews carried some gun stocks so that they could use machine guns as infantry weapons if they where ever shot down but cant seem to find it right now.
     
  12. Negative Creep

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    Although interestingly, they were prohibited from carrying pistols during the Battle of Britain
     
  13. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Why's that???
     
  14. R-2800

    R-2800 Member

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    wow the rifle in the fuselage is a good idea but having a high quaility hunting rifle? that's too much
     
  15. genkideskan

    genkideskan Member

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    Micdrow - did they mentioned about the ammunition ? Is it stored with the emergency pack ( Notausrüstung ) in the luggage compartment ?
     
  16. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    The information I had says nothing on where the ammo was stored. I will see if I can find some more info.
     
  17. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

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    A reason German pilots during battle of britain had no pistols is an odd one and not to sure myself.

    The 109 had tight range and many would fall from empty fuel into the English Channel. Some pilots shot themselves rather than die from drowning or exposure. This meant rescue was impossible so the carrying of guns was stopped.
     
  18. Negative Creep

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    I think it may have been for morale reasons as well. I would quote the passage, but it isn't indexed and don't really fancy skimming through 600 pages to find it!
     
  19. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Where did you hear this? I am sure that some may have done so but it was not common practice for German pilots to do so.
     
  20. Negative Creep

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    I think the gun was more to do with being trapped in a burning plane than ditching in the ocean. Whilst a lot of pilots did die this way, there were buoys and rescue islands, and regular SAR patrols, even though Dowding authorized shooting rescue planes down, on the grounds they were spying
     
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