Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
I'd have to be in it at takeoff to know for sure.
Boeing Names Independent Quality Review Leader
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I'd have to be in it at takeoff to know for sure.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
I don't like it at all. They're shielding Boeing from accountability, and that can only deepen the problems they're having.
There is more to it than that. This deal means Boeing will continue to exist which has global ramifications, and huge ramifications on the defense side. If Boeing was labeled a felon, it could not continue to build or retrofit/support government contracts.
And Boeing is still accepting responsibility. Furthermore I can assure you things are vastly improved starting with the culture right at the top. The current Boeing is not the same as the one under previous leadership.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
I understand the fallout from convicting Boeing of a felony, but when you lie about a known issue and that ends up killing several hundred people, I'd say that's felonious behavior. Change the law about who Uncle Sam does business with, but hold their feet to the fire that they, after all, built themselves.
I wasn't making any comment about Boeing's leadership or culture outside of the fact that slaps on the wrist don't often instigate reflection or introspection, two qualities I think the company definitely needs right now.
Former leadership should be held accountable…
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
My own opinion is this: I don't think companies should be prosecuted. I think the individuals inside those companies who make the criminal decisions should be held personally responsible by prosecuting them individually. Paying a fine, even a big one, out of corporate funds doesn't have nearly so salutary an effect as does the prospect of personally serving life in prison for killing a couple of hundred people through a personal decision placing dollars above lives.
In line with that, I completely agree that the leadership that swept the Max8's autopilot/pitot tube issues under the rug should be hauled into court and made to answer for their deadly decisions -- and face prison time for their roles, while that's apt.
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
oops]
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Admiral Beez
Major
I expect a team from Boeing has been assembled to find out what happened in India. I just hope this 787 crash isn't a 737 Max like instance of the crossing of systems/software and pilot training/knowledge. I expect we'll know definitively before the year's out.
aviationnews.eu
Air India Boeing 787 Dreamliner Crashes Near Ahmedabad
Photo: Archive 787 Air India, M. van Leeuwen Date: 12 June 2025Location: Meghani Nagar, near Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport (Ahmedabad)Flight: AI 171, Ahmedabad–London (Gatwick)Air…
aviationnews.eu
Come on now. Seriously, why would it be? It was a 12 year old plane with more than 8000 take offs and 40000 flight hours.
The 787 has been in service for more than a decade, flown more than a billion passengers, and this is the first fatal accident/hull loss.
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buffnut453
Captain
Some talking heads are suggesting a double engine failure, possibly bird strike related. Others are pointing to the lack of flaps while yet more are saying that's impossible because of the warnings that would happen during take-off. I suppose it's possible that the crew retracted the flaps instead of the undercarriage….but that would be a very basic mistake for such an experienced crew to make. We'll just have to wait for the accident investigation to publish its findings. Regardless of the cause, it's a tragic loss of life.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
Like any accident, we'll have to wait until the CVR and data recorder are recovered and explored.
One thing CW Lemoine mentioned on his channel is that it was over 100°F at takeoff, giving a density altitude of around 3,000 feet. The plane carried over 200 people and was fueled to fly nonstop to Gatwick in London. That's an awful lot of weight to launch without flaps. I'd hate to think
buffnut453
is right and they raised flaps instead of gear ... if that was so, perhaps the drag from the gear was a contributing factor?
Again, not a pilot, I don't know, and I'll await the investigation.
One thing CW Lemoine mentioned on his channel is that it was over 100°F at takeoff, giving a density altitude of around 3,000 feet. The plane carried over 200 people and was fueled to fly nonstop to Gatwick in London. That's an awful lot of weight to launch without flaps. I'd hate to think
buffnut453
is right and they raised flaps instead of gear ... if that was so, perhaps the drag from the gear was a contributing factor?Again, not a pilot, I don't know, and I'll await the investigation.
Admiral Beez
Major
It's amazing that one passenger walked away, nearly unscathed.
This popular pilot channel speaks of the possibility of flaps over undercarriage. Start at 19:25 mins.
View: https://www.youtube.com/live/wGgKSDJcb54?feature=shared&t=1165
This popular pilot channel speaks of the possibility of flaps over undercarriage. Start at 19:25 mins.
View: https://www.youtube.com/live/wGgKSDJcb54?feature=shared&t=1165
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
It's been that long already? I feel even older.
The first 787 flew in 2009, and it entered service in 2011.
The one that crashed was built in 2013.
I love the 787. Its a great aircraft, especially for passengers. The cabin pressurization system is awesome. The 787's internal cabin pressure is the equivalent of 6,000 feet (1,800 m) altitude, significantly improves passenger comfort. It also maintains higher humidity levels. The system reduces passenger fatigue, symptoms associated with jet lag (obviously can't do anything about the time difference), and less gastrointestinal problems associated with flight.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
And those dimmable windows entertain me for hours.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
I'm obviously unfamiliar with the cockpit layout. How close (or far away) are the levers controlling flaps and gear? How different are they in shape that the pilot may or may not realize the error?
In short, is such a mistake likely, possible, or errant? Not asking you directly, but it's an open question to pilots here who may have experience that's germane.
Admiral Beez
Major
At the 19:25 min mark this experienced pilot mentions this exact error and how the captain caught it. That these seemingly qualified pilots can candidly share such an occurrence suggests that this error is more than possible.
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