Bomber Crew Personal Armament

[MIflyer]

I have started reading the book "Bomber Aircrew Personal Experience." I read a couple of surprising things about the personal weapons the crews carried in Europe.

One bomber pilot said that none of the crew carried the .45 automatics they were issued on missions, since carrying a gun gave the Germans an excuse to shoot them if they came down in occupied territory.

But another pilot in the ETO said that with his crew all of the officers carried the .45's that they were issued, and in addition to that the crew chief had a Thompson submachine gun and all of the other crew members carried M1 carbines. He also said that he thought they should go unarmed because they would be treated worse if they came down in enemy territory. But apparently instead they were armed to the teeth!

I wonder if they had to bail out if they would bring all the guns with them. I would guess they .45's would be strapped on but I doubt the Thompson or M1's would come along when using a parachute.

 

[T Bolt]

My father flew in B-24s with the 15th Air Force and was a sergeant working as a bomb strike photographer when his aircraft was shot down in Austria in Feb 45'. From the story he told of his capture I know he was carrying a .45 in a shoulder holster when he bailed out and was captured, but fortunately chose not to use it or I would not be here.

 

[Milosh]

Would imagine the long guns would be when the a/c crash landed.

 

[billrunnels]

Carrying a gun was optional. I chose to carry a .45 in a shoulder holster figuring I could get rid of it on the ground if necessary. A tail gunner friend did just that. The carbine was available as a choice earlier in the war. It was small and could be taken when bailing out. Never heard of the Thompson being issued. The .45 was issued and picked up on two occasions during the short time I was there. Underground reports dictated the policy. Causing more trouble than worth or crew members being killed by civilians using pitch forks.

 

[Barrett]

The main US aircrew sidearm was the .38 cal. Victory Model revolver. Most fliers preferred it when available because it was lighter than the .45 auto. (Col. Dave Schilling of the 5t6FG had the ordies make him a 20-round magazine and a forward grip on his full-auto gat.) At least in some SW Pacific bomb groups, standard equipment was a 12-gauge shotgun with a box or more of 00 buckshot. Usually aircrew traded those to the marines/GIs for other stuff.

All these decades later, internet legend holds that the M1911 was notably inaccurate. Not so. At all. There are two factors: army recruits were trained on WW II production for decades thereafter--the guns were rattling loose. The other trouble was that the army did a marginal job teaching how to shoot it, especially with the one-handed, full arm extended target stance. I have shot several wartime 1911s and they range from OK to superb. I have the last 1911 that Joe Foss carried on active duty, and the last time I shot it (his 100th birthday) it tried hard to hold 2 inches for 3 rounds at 20 yards.

 

[MIflyer]

In AFROTC we were told that the USAF switched from the 1911 to the .38 for pilot sidearms because they wanted to make sure the pilots would not think they had an effective weapon to engage enemy troops.. They wanted downed aircrew to hide in the bushes and wait for the rescue choppers rather than trying to be Frank Luke.

 

[Coronet6]

The main US aircrew sidearm was the .38 cal. Victory Model revolver. Most fliers preferred it when available because it was lighter than the .45 auto. (Col. Dave Schilling of the 5t6FG had the ordies make him a 20-round magazine and a forward grip on his full-auto gat.) At least in some SW Pacific bomb groups, standard equipment was a 12-gauge shotgun with a box or more of 00 buckshot. Usually aircrew traded those to the marines/GIs for other stuff.

All these decades later, internet legend holds that the M1911 was notably inaccurate. Not so. At all. There are two factors: army recruits were trained on WW II production for decades thereafter--the guns were rattling loose. The other trouble was that the army did a marginal job teaching how to shoot it, especially with the one-handed, full arm extended target stance. I have shot several wartime 1911s and they range from OK to superb. I have the last 1911 that Joe Foss carried on active duty, and the last time I shot it (his 100th birthday) it tried hard to hold 2 inches for 3 rounds at 20 yards.

Uh, NO! Navy and Marine aviators and aircrew men were issued the S&W Victory Model in .38 Special with a four inch barrel.
British and Commonwealth fliers were issued Victory Models in .38 S&W with five inch barrels. US Army Air Corps/Air Force crews were issued 1911A1's.

If you check missing aircrew reports from the air corps you will note that the .50 and .30 caliber machine guns were listed by serial numbers on lost aircraft. In the Pacific, especially early in the war you will find they listed 1911's that were lost with the crew and every now and then, Thompson guns, Springfield .30 caliber rifles, M-1 Carbines.
I guess they didn't want to surrender to the Japanese!

 

[A.G. Williams]

I have read that US aircrew stopped carrying the .38 revolver because it normally came with unjacketed lead bullets which could be regarded as banned by the Hague Convention, and it was not unknown for aircrew to be shot out of hand it caught with one.

 

[special ed]

Because of that , the U.S. manufactured copper jacket .38 special ammo for the military. I mentioned somewhere on the forum that my father in law, with 19th BG in Australia, talked a Naval pilot out of the nickel plated, pearl handle .38 special he carried from home using the stories of Japanese shooting pilots or aircrew with a .38 and lead rounds. Whether true or not, he later used the .38 for other barter.

 

[Coronet6]

I have read that US aircrew stopped carrying the .38 revolver because it normally came with unjacketed lead bullets which could be regarded as banned by the Hague Convention, and it was not unknown for aircrew to be shot out of hand it caught with one.

The Navy and Marine Corps issued FMJ cartridges to personnel armed with .38 Special pistols.

 

[Coronet6]

The Navy and Marine Corps issued FMJ cartridges to personnel armed with .38 Special pistols.

My uncle was a Marine Aircrewman assigned to VMTB-232 at Ulithi and Okinawa. His TBM was shot down by the Japanese at Okinawa in late April, 1945. His Victory Model was #366303.