I do not remember, I will have to go back and take a look at it.
Bombers to bomb NYC???
- Thread starter krieghund
- Start date
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I do not remember, I will have to go back and take a look at it.
Soundbreaker Welch?
Tech Sergeant
I how top notch the fighters would have been to guard New York, seeing as everybody wasn't expecting an attack there. Would there have been P-51's
or just P-40's to shoot down the Amerika bomber?
Sadly, the US had F-16's nearby when the Terrorists attacked on 911, and we sure couldn't do much to stop them.
Kiwikid
Airman 1st Class
I interpret the article refers to either the He-177 or perhaps the French built He-277 with conventional engine layout. I doubt that many H-277 were ever completed, but may be wrong on that.
This airport was a top secret SS facility with 2000 metre runways, set behind a forest.
The New York mission was proposed for FW200 Condors of II/KG40 in 1942. The plan was for them to ditch afterwards. An interesting bunch of U-boats in port at Horten near Oslo were given top secret verbal orders on 30-31 March 1945. This group of six U-boats were Gruppe Seewolf. The Americans were very distressed by Gruppe seewulf and some of the U-boat skippers were actually interrogated about a raid on New York.
The key phrase here is that they were held in reserve for an attack on New York. On the night of 27 April the Nazis were going door to door in Berlin telling trapped residents to hold out because the A-bomb would be used next morning.
On the same date Hitler learned of betrayal by Himmler and issued orders for the arrest of Himmler, Feiglein and Kammler. Kammler was in charge of A-bomb production.
In British internment at CSDIC camp 11, Dornberger revealed to General Bassenge that he and von Braun went to Lisbon in December 1944 for secret talks with officials from GEC (Gerard Swope Clark Haynes Minor)
It appears that this meeting was sanctioned by Kammler and may have involved the secret abandonment of Nazi Germany's A-bomb project.
It may be that the preparations were laid for an attack on New York in a ruse to trick Hitler until it was too late.
I assume these aircraft were dismantled and buried at Gardermoen airport. Has anybody ever thought to dig up this now abandoned airport to find the aircraft ?
This airport was a top secret SS facility with 2000 metre runways, set behind a forest.
The New York mission was proposed for FW200 Condors of II/KG40 in 1942. The plan was for them to ditch afterwards. An interesting bunch of U-boats in port at Horten near Oslo were given top secret verbal orders on 30-31 March 1945. This group of six U-boats were Gruppe Seewolf. The Americans were very distressed by Gruppe seewulf and some of the U-boat skippers were actually interrogated about a raid on New York.
The key phrase here is that they were held in reserve for an attack on New York. On the night of 27 April the Nazis were going door to door in Berlin telling trapped residents to hold out because the A-bomb would be used next morning.
On the same date Hitler learned of betrayal by Himmler and issued orders for the arrest of Himmler, Feiglein and Kammler. Kammler was in charge of A-bomb production.
In British internment at CSDIC camp 11, Dornberger revealed to General Bassenge that he and von Braun went to Lisbon in December 1944 for secret talks with officials from GEC (Gerard Swope Clark Haynes Minor)
It appears that this meeting was sanctioned by Kammler and may have involved the secret abandonment of Nazi Germany's A-bomb project.
It may be that the preparations were laid for an attack on New York in a ruse to trick Hitler until it was too late.
I assume these aircraft were dismantled and buried at Gardermoen airport. Has anybody ever thought to dig up this now abandoned airport to find the aircraft ?
- Thread starter
- #26
UPDATE:: just met a friend who is a rep for Jeppesen who is from Norway and related to me father knows of this airfield and the bombers that there. they were he177s with extra fuselage fuel cells like the he274(STILL ONE WAY TRIP). the british army did not preserve any and rolled over all the aircraft with their armor in Norway.
NUTS!!!!
NUTS!!!!
billswagger
Airman 1st Class
- 256
- Mar 12, 2009
The idea of a transatlantic flight to bomb new york might have been in the works, but we never know if it was propaganda. There are many things that the press reported to keep America in the fight and the moral of the soldiers up. Even if it meant inflating statistics and embellishing the performance of certain aircraft.
Having several relatives who were in WW2, they all mention the use of this type of propaganda.
i agree with that its about 4000-5000 miles to get there from berlin but oslo about3000-4000 still wound't make it.
- Thread starter
- #29
Their only real possibility was the Ju390 or Me264 if Gen Wever hadn't been killed. I can prove both but the Me264 is easier for fuel but the Ju390 is faster to manufacture.
Question is would an attack had the same reaction the japanese had to the dolittle raid or would have it given us more resolve Could have been bad holding some fighter groups for home defense.
Question is would an attack had the same reaction the japanese had to the dolittle raid or would have it given us more resolve Could have been bad holding some fighter groups for home defense.
HealzDevo
Staff Sergeant
I think limited shock, but it would have been recovered from much faster, plus it doesn't really fix the main problem the Germans really had at that time. Ie. a lot of their weapons such as tanks and aircraft were really effective but just far too expensive to produce in effective enough numbers against the Allies... Therefore the end result would have been the same, Germany gets crushed maybe a fraction faster...
Propellorhead
Airman 1st Class
I first read of Gardermoen many years ago in a book by William Stevenson called the Bormann Brotherhood who said to the effect that the airfield was built by the SS in a forrest. Stevenson himself was a WW2 Royal navy aviator and naval intelligence officer. He was quite specific that the airfield was built and operated by the SS.
The illustration attached is a WW2 vintage illustration of the He-227 B-5. These aircraft were built by converting older He-177 A-0 airframes with new tails (resembling the Manchester's tail) with longer span wings sporting four engine nacelles. They were powered by the high altitude Jumo 213E engines used on Dora fighters.
My first inclination like that of Juha would be perhaps these aircraft were the He-227 B-5 but these only had a range of 4,500 miles. Erhard Milch made a passing remark in his memoirs that there was a proposal to fly land planes for an attack on New York via a refuelling stop at Greenland. That still does not tally with the 7000 mile range mentioned by the NY Times article.
The only aircraft however which might fit the 7000 mile range described in that NY Times article was perhaps the Horten Ho XVIII. The Argentines built a scaled down version of the Ho XVIII called the Naranjero.
Is it possible that Hienkel was building the Horten Ho XVIII near Oslo?
I am not at all certain that it was a Hienkel factory near Oslo which the RAF bombed, but I do recall reading online somewhere a claim that it was a factory building a Hienkel jet bomber. I am scratching my head now trying to recall where I first read that claim and from whom.
I have read a claim that the Horten type Ho XVIII was developed at the Erzgebirge area which is known more for it's WW2 Radium / Uranium mines and the so called Nazi Bell device. There were three luftwaffe aircrfields within the area of the massive Erzgebirge underground complex.
Relating this back to an earlier linked question of this thread about the aircraft factory bombed near Oslo by the RAF has anybody got any further clues what aircraft exactly might have been built near there?
Only the SS Kammler Fuhrrungstab had the freedom to build any projects like the Ho XVIII, prototype or otherwise later in the war. Why bomb an aircraft factory in Norway so late in the war? (late April 1944)
(Apologies, I followed a link from a related thread and answered it here.)
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/messerschmitt-me-264-heinkel-he-277-a-7540-5.html
The illustration attached is a WW2 vintage illustration of the He-227 B-5. These aircraft were built by converting older He-177 A-0 airframes with new tails (resembling the Manchester's tail) with longer span wings sporting four engine nacelles. They were powered by the high altitude Jumo 213E engines used on Dora fighters.
My first inclination like that of Juha would be perhaps these aircraft were the He-227 B-5 but these only had a range of 4,500 miles. Erhard Milch made a passing remark in his memoirs that there was a proposal to fly land planes for an attack on New York via a refuelling stop at Greenland. That still does not tally with the 7000 mile range mentioned by the NY Times article.
The only aircraft however which might fit the 7000 mile range described in that NY Times article was perhaps the Horten Ho XVIII. The Argentines built a scaled down version of the Ho XVIII called the Naranjero.
Is it possible that Hienkel was building the Horten Ho XVIII near Oslo?
I am not at all certain that it was a Hienkel factory near Oslo which the RAF bombed, but I do recall reading online somewhere a claim that it was a factory building a Hienkel jet bomber. I am scratching my head now trying to recall where I first read that claim and from whom.
I have read a claim that the Horten type Ho XVIII was developed at the Erzgebirge area which is known more for it's WW2 Radium / Uranium mines and the so called Nazi Bell device. There were three luftwaffe aircrfields within the area of the massive Erzgebirge underground complex.
Relating this back to an earlier linked question of this thread about the aircraft factory bombed near Oslo by the RAF has anybody got any further clues what aircraft exactly might have been built near there?
Only the SS Kammler Fuhrrungstab had the freedom to build any projects like the Ho XVIII, prototype or otherwise later in the war. Why bomb an aircraft factory in Norway so late in the war? (late April 1944)
(Apologies, I followed a link from a related thread and answered it here.)
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/messerschmitt-me-264-heinkel-he-277-a-7540-5.html
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So we hammered Germany and Japan for YEARS, towards the end we had 1,000 bombers per raid, and the Germans are going to crush American resolve with 40 bombers carrying 4 500 pounders on a single raid? Ok. I say single raid, because the second raid would have been intercepted by a swarm of either P38's, P47's or something. This bomber did't even exist, but lets say we GAVE them a 200 bomber fleet of B36's, which didn't exist for several years, none of them had mechanical failures, or crashed on takeoff or landing. The first raid would have been a suprise, the second they would have been decimated by interceptors, possibly starting with planes based out of England(P47N's, longrange, good firepower), then carrier based F4U's, followed by landbased aircraft when they reached America, followed by carrier based F4U's, followed by England based fighters. Could even a B52 fly this mission without refueling???? Or, they fly over, drop 4 bombs each and then bailout and lose the entire raid, every raid???????? Brilliant strategy.
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That, and various sources of German mis-information as well. Personally, I take almost any reports of "last-ditch" or secret Nazi plans to bomb the US and other super-weapons in the works with more than a grain of salt. People love to read about such stuff and many will feed this hunger.
