Canada Takes Bids For F-35s, F/A-18E/F's and Gripens....

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

This will be interesting - from another article;

Boeing's argument for its Super Hornet Block III was simple: The Royal Canadian Air Force already operates F/A-18s, and buying the latest version of the Super Hornet is a proven, affordable option that will allow the service to reuse existing infrastructure and reduce sustainment costs."

BUT...

"As a partner nation of the F-35 program, Canada has contributed funding for the development of the Joint Strike Fighter and is involved in the production of the jet. In Lockheed's statement confirming the bid, the firm said the F-35 program would support an estimated 150,000 jobs in Canada over its life span."

I don't think SAAB will be able to meet offset contract demands unless it's prepared to have production line set up in Canada.

Then at the end of the day, if anything but the F-35 is chosen, does Canada get the boot as an F-35 partner nation? If so does it lose it's investment already paid into the program?

BTW - I believe we're talking the F-35A which is down to 78 million a copy. F/A-18 block III $66 million. JAS 39, depending on the bells and whistles - $30 - $60 million.
 
FLYBOYJ said:
This will be interesting - from another article;

Boeing's argument for its Super Hornet Block III was simple: The Royal Canadian Air Force already operates F/A-18s, and buying the latest version of the Super Hornet is a proven, affordable option that will allow the service to reuse existing infrastructure and reduce sustainment costs."

BUT...

"As a partner nation of the F-35 program, Canada has contributed funding for the development of the Joint Strike Fighter and is involved in the production of the jet. In Lockheed's statement confirming the bid, the firm said the F-35 program would support an estimated 150,000 jobs in Canada over its life span."

I don't think SAAB will be able to meet offset contract demands unless it's prepared to have production line set up in Canada.

Then at the end of the day, if anything but the F-35 is chosen, does Canada get to boot as an F-35 partner nation? If so does it lose it's investment already paid into the program?

BTW - I believe we're talking the F-35A which is down to 78 million a copy. F/A-18 block III $66 million. JAS 39, depending on the bells and whistles - $30 - $60 million.
Click to expand...

I'd very surprised if the Gripen win this, I'm very much in doubt that it will. But, in saying that, should it do so, I'm pretty much 100% sure that SAAB would put up a production line in Canada, in the same way as they did in Brazil....
But as I said, the F/A-18E/F and the Gripen are only in this as a filler, to make it look good! 😉
I'm also surprised that they added the Gripen, because she's a single engine aircraft compare to the others which has two, the last single engine fighter they had was the F-104 Starfighter, right?
I don't know what their air force thought of the Starfighter, but it's been a while since they used them....30+ years, or do I remember wrong, it's morning here and I haven't had my cuppa yet! 😉😆😂

Anyhoo, the Gripen would look awesome in Canadian markings! 😍😎
 
Lucky13 said:
I'd very surprised if the Gripen win this, I'm very much in doubt that it will. But, in saying that, should it do so, I'm pretty much 100% sure that SAAB would put up a production line in Canada, in the same way as they did in Brazil....
But as I said, the F/A-18E/F and the Gripen are only in this as a filler, to make it look good! 😉
I'm also surprised that they added the Gripen, because she's a single engine aircraft compare to the others which has two, the last single engine fighter they had was the F-104 Starfighter, right?
I don't know what their air force thought of the Starfighter, but it's been a while since they used them....30+ years, or do I remember wrong, it's morning here and I haven't had my cuppa yet! 😉😆😂

Anyhoo, the Gripen would look awesome in Canadian markings! 😍😎
Click to expand...

You may be correct on many points!

The Canadian Armed Forces needs to establish the primary role for their new fighter. Is it going to drop bombs or be an interceptor? All 3 aircraft can do both but if mainly used as an interceptor along it's northern border, it needs to carry a large cash of air to air weapons and that's where I think the Hornet will excel. If the decision is made that a stealthy strike aircraft is required that has electronic warfare. intelligence gathering and battlefield integration capability, then the F-35A is your bird.

When I lived in Canada I met a few CAF pilots who flew the Starfighter and they loved it. I believe the last CF-104s were retired in 1982/83.

Lastly, what ever the CAF purchases, they have to have the capability of supporting it for the next 40 or 50 years. That's where the F-35A may come out in front. If Canada goes with the F-35A they are guaranteed a nice chunk of the production effort and will probably offset their purchase over the next 20 years. IIRC LMCO is producing about 160 F-35s a year at their Fort Worth facility. If the propaganda is true, Canada is looking to gain 150,000 jobs, Japan and Italy are also building F-35s as well.
 
Lucky13 said:
I'm also surprised that they added the Gripen, because she's a single engine aircraft compare to the others which has two, the last single engine fighter they had was the F-104 Starfighter, right?
I don't know what their air force thought of the Starfighter, but it's been a while since they used them....30+ years, or do I remember wrong, it's morning here and I haven't had my cuppa yet! 😉😆😂

Anyhoo, the Gripen would look awesome in Canadian markings! 😍😎
Click to expand...

Ummmm... the F-35 also is a single-engine aircraft.
 
FLYBOYJ said:
BTW - I believe we're talking the F-35A which is down to 78 million a copy. F/A-18 block III $66 million. JAS 39, depending on the bells and whistles - $30 - $60 million.
Click to expand...

Brazil is paying $4.6billion for 36 NG aircraft. $128 million per plane.
Saab offered Poland $66million per plane in 2002.
South Africa payed $65 million per plane for 28 planes way back in 1999.
(I'm sure these deals came with extras like simulators, but Canada will need these things too.)

I know Wikipedia says $30-$60 million per plane. But no one has ever paid that, and especially not for the NG variant.

My guess would be that Canada would have to just under what Brazil payed per plane, because they would order more than 36 planes. But the $128million per plane is the most recent price.
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Come on F-18's! Thats what you want Canada! :D
Click to expand...
I'd say that's what we're likely to get. See Boeing Canada's website with the Super Hornet front and centre and you can see what they're pushing Boeing: Boeing Canada - Home

Boeing has a strong presence in Canada, and a long history of supplying aircraft to the CAF/RCAF. Boeing aircraft (and those from Boeing acquired companies) in the Canadian military include the current CF-18, CC-177 Globemaster, CH-147F Chinook and the past CF-101 Voodoo fighter and CC-137 transport/refueling aircraft.

Mind you, the F-35 is made by Lockheed, and they also have a legacy of Canadian military orders; of course there's the CC-130H Hercules and Super Hercules, but also the CP-140 Aurora. However it is the debacle with the Lockheed's CH-148 Cyclone on both quality and delivery, plus the Cyclone's recent fatal crash, and the company's lawsuit against Canada in its warship procurement project that is making Canadian politicians look increasingly unfavorably at Lockheed-Martin. Add the above to PM Trudeau's commitment that the F-35 would NOT be chosen, and I'd say it has to be the Boeing F-18 Super Hornet.

My preference is with the Swedish aircraft, but assembly can be a bitch.

ikea-car-600x497.jpg
 
Last edited:
Trudeau's comments were made 4 years ago - over 550 units later, things have changed.

I think it's not only going to boil down to performance and cost, but how much offset will Canada receive by buying from Boeing or LMCO. During the CP-140 program, Canadian companies were given 40% of the P-3 sub assembly production. Not only did that cover the original 18 CP-140s and remaining 3 CP-140As, but also encompassed about 100 additional production units which included P-3s that went to Japan, Australia and the Netherlands, let alone the USN. Now the question will be if Boeing is willing to give Canada a large piece of the Super Hornet production line.
 
I think that the F/A-18 E/F will win. I say this because Canada already has F/A-18s and transitioning to an upgraded version will be easy. I think the F-35 is a decent choice too, but the F/A-18 is a much simpler aircraft to operate. Plus the F/A-18 has better performance.
download.jpeg
(F/A-18G here)
 
Not receiving F-35s, after years of 'anti-ing up' the share development costs pot, will be a disappointment and, as FBJr. stated, "there's many things it [F18] can't do". RCAF pilots will be 'locked out'of some combat roles - that only the F-35 can perform.
Higher operating costs .... get used to it. The F-35 is where technology is heading, IMO.
The governing (minority) party will once again do what it had done since Confederation, put the fulfillment of its commitments ahead of the best interests of Canada's military and Canada's defense.
Truth? I want both. I love the F-18. I respect Boeing. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Similar threads

A
Canada and the seemingly unreachable 2%
Replies
11
Views
1K
Admiral Beez
A
M
Aussie F-111's in a landfill?????
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
MIflyer
M
gumbyk
F-22 Mishap
Replies
5
Views
970
GreenKnight121
GreenKnight121
Dronescapes
U.S. Cold War Sentinels (Documentary)
Replies
1
Views
495
Gnomey
Gnomey
fannum
Radome colors on McDonnell F-4
Replies
1
Views
710
fannum
fannum
Back