Canadian Air Frce against U.S. Air Force

[Nonskimmer]

also, is in not still the RCAF not just the CAF??

The RCAF ceased to exist as such in early 1968, along with the RCN and the old Canadian Army, when the services unified into the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). The idea was to create a single combined force under a single, unified command, but they quickly found that it didn't work that way (Duuhhh! ). In the early 70's the separate commands were set up again, but the name Canadian Armed Forces (or simply Canadian Forces today) remained, as well as the more or less joint, interacting force concept. It's mostly apparent at the top levels though. We still refer to the individual commands as the Army, Navy, and Air Force too.


Confused yet?

 

[pbfoot]

if you care to believe the rt word for the caf was canforce short for canadian forces but it sounded to belligerent so they changed to canadian military

 

[Nonskimmer]

Well I always figured that was why "Armed" was finally dropped from the name. It made us sound too much like a military. Imagine.

 

[102first_hussars]

"Nonskimmer" wrote

I didn't know the honour carried over to the Loyal Edmonton Regiment though.

Its not like the eddies themselves were awarded as well, The Loyal Eddies are an Auxilary attached to the PPCLI. after Chretien disbanded the Airbourne alot of other changes were made, alot of Alberta regiments were reasighned as a part of the PPCLI, its like an army of its own its got 3 Battalions worth of divisions, own artillery and support groups, along with intelligience. so while Im only an AUX Im wear the PPCLI badge as my Battalion mark and a my division mark will say auxilery
Loyal Edmonton Regiment.

So when I say that my group was awarded I always forget that The Eddies werent apart of the PPCLI until later on, we just see ourselves as PPCLI's thats all.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Ok, that makes sense. So the entire regiment, including auxiliaries, wears the citation and not just the 2nd battalion. I didn't know that.

 

[pbfoot]

neither does 2 ppcli
back to the theme what do these american aces all have in common
gentile blakeslee beeson and hofer they were all trained by rcaf as was slick goodson who was bumped by yeager on x1 program though i have not stated i think who are better pilots why not throw the raf germans and others in just for interest

 

[Nonskimmer]

For many years our training was second to none, and we could realistically make the claim that our overall skill level was too. I mean some of our equipment was old, and we didn't have a lot, but our levels of skill and professionalism rocked.
But that began to slide a bit around the mid nineties, starting with the infamous Forces Reduction Plan in '94. Remember that? We lost so many old hands and expertise with that, that we still haven't filled all the holes yet. Have you guys seen some of the new people coming in these days? Even discipline ain't what it used to be. We're still a well trained and professional force (what's left), but admittedly our standard has dropped from what it used to be. At least where the Navy and Air Force are concerned. It's a combination of the endless budget cuts and political correctness. We have a term for that: The Liberal Party of Canada.

Seriously though, we're smaller than we've ever been, the overall level of training isn't as high as it was, the support just isn't there, and operations sometimes suffer as a result. We never ever had a huge military, but we could always seem to do more with less. That isn't necessarily true anymore. We can't even fulfill our NATO or overseas commitments properly. Neither the Air Force or the Navy have any sort of heavy transport capability at the moment, and we have to either hitch a ride with American heavy transports or hire Ukrainian An-225's to get us where we're going in the world. We have less and less each year it seems, and if you ain't got the gear or the logistical support, you ain't doing squat. It wouldn't matter how professional your people are.

Boys, we're a sad joke. It sucks, but it's the simple truth.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think what you're going to find is the basic skill level and tactics of both CAF and USAF pilots are going to be very close as there are still massive exchange programs. I see Canadian Officers all the time strutting around Peterson AFB....

As far as WW2, the RCAF did do a lot of training of our early aces and provided good combat indocrination, but there were huge primary fligt trining programs here where RAF cadets were brought stateside for training.

http://www.qnet.com/~carcomm/wreck19.htm

But don't take too much credit for the likes of Gentile, Blakeslee, Beeson, and Hofer - they were great pilots but you also had Bong, McGuire, McCambell, MacDonald and Boyington - they were very far from Canada!!!

 

[Nonskimmer]

I see Canadian Officers all the time strutting around Peterson AFB....

Not all pilots, are they? Just curious. Probably some navigators or flight engineers in there, eh?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I see Canadian Officers all the time strutting around Peterson AFB....

Not all pilots, are they? Just curious. Probably some navigators or flight engineers in there, eh?

Many are/ were pilots. I'm guessing they split their time between there and Cheyenne Mountain...

 

[Nonskimmer]

Ah. Thanks.

 

[pbfoot]

I think canada more than any other nation was opened by aviation (bush pilots) it has played a huge role in the development and opening up of canada and I still think plays a role s in the canadian aviation pysche. men like grant McConachie ....wop may(not the ace but the bush pilot) . bishop barker collishaw I'm not saying better but different

 

[Nonskimmer]

You're right. Even now a good deal of the north is inaccessible by any other means but aircraft. Some beautiful country too, I might add.
A lot of open scrub (way up north), but some great country as well.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think canada more than any other nation was opened by aviation (bush pilots) it has played a huge role in the development and opening up of canada and I still think plays a role s in the canadian aviation pysche. men like grant McConachie ....wop may(not the ace but the bush pilot) . bishop barker collishaw I'm not saying better but different

Actually Wop May (the ace) was a great bush pilot...

http://www.wopmay.com/adventures/adventures.htm

I agree and I say that being a Bush pilot was an is a hell of a lot more challenging than any combat one might ever undertake. Going into combat you generally know what you're up against, flying into some uncharted mountainous territory (especially after WW1) with little or no navigation equipment and doing most of the flying by the seat of your pants is just plain suicidal, but these brave folks accomplished this and opened up the Canadian frontier. Take any ace of any war and have them examine the challenges faced by bush pilots and I'm sure they will walk away telling you these guys are the best pilots who ever lived!!!

 

[102first_hussars]

"a Bush pilot was an is a hell of a lot more challenging than any combat one might ever undertake"

Yeah back in those days you were more likely to get killed learning how to fly than in actual combat.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Yeah back in those days you were more likely to get killed learning how to fly than in actual combat.

Yep! I think during WW1 half of all Sopwith Camel losses were due to training accidents!

 

[pbfoot]

I think the RCAf benifited from having all these bush pilots used in BCATP
as instructors not to take away from the air mail guys and barnstormers in US and for a long while I think it influenced the mindset of aircrew

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think the RCAf benifited from having all these bush pilots used in BCATP
as instructors not to take away from the air mail guys and barnstormers in US and for a long while I think it influenced the mindset of aircrew

Agree!

 

[pbfoot]

and i feel up until about mid 70's the RCAF was the scourge of the northern european airspace if you had a furball with the canadians and won it was a feather in your squadrons cap but with the f 16 ,15 and us in our 104 the gig was up I not aware how many hours the aircrew get a year but probably less then our counterparts so i feel we've probably dropped down a bunch but we do still have something a lot of airforces lack and that is incredably large air combat areas that are over land and that can't hurt

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ok, that makes sense. So the entire regiment, including auxiliaries, wears the citation and not just the 2nd battalion. I didn't know that.

That is pretty much the same for our unit. Our Regiment was not even formed until 1963 (I believe it was 1963, it may have been 1967). We have since then been assigned to the 1st Infantry Division and because we are assigned to them we wear a Unit Citation on our uniform that the 1st Infantry Division recieved for the D-Day landings. Our unit was not even around back then, hell they did not have Helicopter Regiments in 1944!