Captured He 178 at Wright Field?!?

[kool kitty89]

Building Air Power at Wright Field

Meanwhile the laboratories of the Engineering Division continued efforts to improve aircraft performance. By the end of 1943, there were well over 800 major and thousands of minor projects ongoing at Wright Field. Studying the technology from a captured German Heinkel He 178, the first jet-powered aircraft, engineers and scientists refined and tested the jet engine, culminating in the production of the Bell XP-59A Airacomet, the Army Air Forces' first jet.

What's the deal with this? It doesn't seem to match anything I've read (both He 178's destroyed durring the war, some say the V-2 wasn't completed)

And I've never read anything saying the US captured or tested one.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I was never aware of this either. I thought they were in museums in Berlin and destroyed when the Museums were bombed.

 

[kool kitty89]

Same here, and I can't seem to find refrence of it elsewhere.

 

[Kruska]

Hello aviation enthusiasts,

On 31st February 1943, I remember it as a cold day, Mr. Jim, Jimmy and Jim Bo from a very, very secret organization (Only Roosevelt and his wife knew about them) identifying themselves as Mr. Schmitt, Schmidt and Schmid transported the crates of a He-178 designated as "Historical Artifacts Berlin" to Switzerland using H. Goerings plunder train (in order not to arouse suspicion). From there, via. Spain, Portugal (using a secret super C-47 with extended range) – BTW (best a/c of WW2) - , the crates reached Atlanta (this city was chosen due to its conspiracy theory similarity to Atlantis) the crates were then relabeled as "Spec.Property of Frank Whittle, England" and transported to Wright Field.

This is how the "rumor" came up from 1943 onward - spread by a trucker - about England helping the US in the development of "something spec." This "spec" was later interpreted as Strong Propulsion Engine Combustion.

Actually the crates were never opened because everybody was dearly and impatiantly awaiting a shipment declared as "Historical Artifacts Berlin". It was not until recently that a cleaner looking for a place to take a leak……. sorry but I might endanger myself If I continue to give further details on ……..

Regards
……….

 

[Kruska]

Oh good Lord, somebody has used my avatar to send this message, it wasn't me,really…

Regards
Kruska

 

[Njaco]

 

[kool kitty89]

But if you want to open the who invented it/ who stole the design claims just look at the designs. (some of whittles designs look very odd, as are some of ohains but completely different)

A TRIBUTE TO A CAMBRIDGE ENGINEERINGSTUDENT look as some of the design changes, particularly the 2nd prototype design!

And Ohain's designs Origins of German jet power

But Halford was the only one of the early designers who actually "copied" an other's design and then by simplifying the original whittle patent design, and then in the sense that he based the design on the preliminary layout of the patent design. (which Whittle had already changed by deleting the axial stages and switching to a 2-sided impeller and reverse-flow combustors; Halford keeping the single-sided impeller but eliminating the axial stages as well)

The original 1930 Whittle patent

But seriously, does anyone know if that's real, or did they just make an egregious error.

Is seems odd with the writer's credentials and the publisher.

Arming the Skies

Christopher L. Siebert, a native of St. Mary's, Ohio, is a graduate of Wright State University. While majoring in history there, he served a summer internship with the Aeronautical Systems Center History Office

Published in 1995 by the
History Office, Aeronautical Systems Center

 

[Soren]

AFAIK the He-178 was severely damaged by Allied bombing, but no versions of it were never captured.

 

[kool kitty89]

no versions of it were never captured.

Typo


But that's what I thought, I'm just wondering why he would write that it's a pretty bigh mistake. Also it makes it sound like the US engeneers developed the XP-59A from data gained from the He 178 and its powerplant.

Studying the technology from a captured German Heinkel He 178, the first jet-powered aircraft, engineers and scientists refined and tested the jet engine, culminating in the production of the Bell XP-59A Airacomet, the Army Air Forces' first jet.

 

[Soren]

Whoops, what a difference a single letter can make

Hilarious typo though

 

[MONDARIZ]

Strange altogether.

I found this on wiki commons. Note the picture is marked USAF He-178....

Image:Ohain USAF He 178 page60.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

 

[kool kitty89]

Looks like the same pic. (a few versions floating around listed as different things ) Though some obviously uninformed. (saying the V2 was the version with retractable gear; the V1 had retractable gear, but initially it was flown fixed open) The only difference I think with the V2 was it was to have the longer wing.

Does anyone recognise the type of hangars in the background. (are there distinguishing characteristics for the US?)

 

[Kruska]

Hello MONDARIZ, there is nothing strange,

Literatur: H. Dieter Köhler: Ernst Heinkel, Bernhard Graefe Verlag Koblenz, 1983

The picture from Wikimedia is exactly the same as the one in the above mentioned book, it is just enlarged and mirrored / negative – see the dot on the three lines on the Gate/Door side, all the shades on the floor and a/c, even the positioning of the carriage -tires/tarmac joints are exactly the same.

View attachment 62658

View attachment 62659

As D.A.I.G oh well ... Der Adler ist gelandet .... already mentioned in another post, sites such as Wiki... etc. can be added on by others.

Regards
Kruska

 

[kool kitty89]

Yes but Wiki seems to be more correct than that article, which was published and written by what seems like a reputable author.

MONDARIZ was saying that the wikimedia pic was labeled as a USAF archive pic:

(*'''Description:''' Heinkel He 178 *'''Source:''' USAF This picture may have usage restrictions - PZL-104 {{PD-US}} Category:Experimental aircraft )

And it appears to have been copied/scanned resulting in poor quality.

And again the author,
Arming the Skies

Christopher L. Siebert, a native of St. Mary's, Ohio, is a graduate of Wright State University. While majoring in history there, he served a summer internship with the Aeronautical Systems Center History Office

Published in 1995 by the
History Office, Aeronautical Systems Center

 

[MONDARIZ]

I have had a look around and asked in another forum.

There are no other mention of a captured He-178 anywhere. It seems like the website in the OP might have mistaken a few things.

I was going to write them, but they have a disclaimer on their site, saying they no longer maintain the page.

Although I'm sure they did a lot of testing on Wright Field, im also sure they didn't have a He-178 to test. They would have had access to reports from Gloster and Frank Whittle, maybe even some German reasarch papers, but i think that would have been all.

 

[kool kitty89]

Yes the whole thing seems wrong.

And there was also considerable experience and data from GE's turbocharger development that aided their jet development. (in fact GE had been working on some paper designs of turbojets based on their turbocharger designs, a major considerstion being the combustion stage and its viability)

And of course GE had their own axial designs (TG-100 turboprop becoming TG-180 jet, becoming J35) in development along side the Whittle dirived engines. And the NACA jet program that restarted in '41-42 eventually led to Westinghouse developing the X19A which was the first indiginous American jet engine to run (March 1943) the further 19B would become the J30.


EnginesUSA

 

[A4K]

Definitely sounds like a load of crap. One thing though, does anyone know the origin of the reports regarding the destruction of the He 178 in the Berlin museum? I've always read that too, but if it's based on Allied information, it might not be the case.

 

[MONDARIZ]

I'm sure they didn't bomb the museum specifically, but that the museum was hit during an air raid, so there might not be any mention of it in allied reports.

But i found this:

"The aeroplane motor collection of which parts are exhibited in Cracow The largest aviation museum in the world was once situated in Berlin, which is largely unknown today. The "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" (German Aviation Collection) was in Alt-Moabit Street near Lehrter Station, housing more than 120 planes, 200 engines, pictures, models, cups and many other things. When Berlin became more and more threatened with bombing raids by the allies, a plan was developed to transfer this museum. Fritz Petereit, who was born in Treptow on the Rega river, an employee at the airport's society was commissioned to plan the transfer. Due to his origins he was convinced that Pomerania was one of the safest areas in the German Reich. Thus, in June and July 1943 the museum was evacuated to a great extent and everything was shifted either by train or trucks to safe places. Petereit remembered in this context transportations to Treptow, where three or four aeroplanes were stored in the pottery Ernst Bordt of Bollenburg and in the storeroom of the Laabs Brothers carpentry in Großen Küte Street. Many aeroplane engines were kept in the dance hall of a restaurant in Darsow, between Gummishof, Levetzow and Dargislaff. Two aeroplanes were removed to Hammer, between Schonlanke and Scharnikau; further aeroplanes were likewise taken out to Schlachau, possibly to the drying places of a brickyard. Several aeroplanes were stored in Ratzebuhr, north of Schneidemühl. Finally, the Quast Guest House of Neuhofen, between Fihiene and Scharnikau, was the storing place of three or four aeroplanes. After 40 years Petereit understandably could not remember further storing places.

For at the end of the war only 24 aeroplanes of the "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammhmg" were discovered by the Poles, the question arises what has happened to the remaining ca. 100 planes. Surely many were destroyed during fights. Since the museum also housed quite modern airplanes, some of them may have been taken away by the Russian Army. It would be of great importance to know whether the reader can remember anything relating to this matter. Who possibly had noticed in the summer of 1943 something concerning the transportation of aeroplanes? Did anybody notice aeroplanes in the storerooms or dance halls of their villages?

In connection with the museum's further extension and the current negotiations between the Federal Government and the Polish Government concerning the return of cultural objects, it would be of great importance to obtain more information and perhaps to receive some pictures, too. "

SPOILS OF WAR N 5 1998

Now if "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" (German Aviation Collection) have been mistaken for "Deutsches Technikmuseum" ("German Technical Museum") then we are looning at another story.....and i think it WAS!

 

[kool kitty89]

I'd immagine the airframe and engine would have gone to the Aviation collection but it would make sense for one the engines to the technical museum. And we at least know that some of the HeS-3B's are still around in museums.


And MONDARIZ,

While the washed out wiki image and your book's example look to be the same, I noticed that the one with the article I posted is at a different angle, clearly showing the exhaust where the other 2 don't.

It's almost definitly from the same location though.

 

[Soren]

KK,

I think the difference in the angle is because two of the pictures are of Prototype 2, and the first is of Prototype 1, both standing in the same hangar. The different exhaust is the give away.