Carcano rifle

[yulzari]

My father fought in North Africa and never thought that Italian soldiers were individually poor opponents but lacked leadership and kit. The large numbers of prisoners was a function of their immobility leaving them stranded when Axis forces withdrew. The Germans always seemed to have lorries.

It is curious that the more powerful and accurate the long arm the more rounds are used to hit the enemy. In musket days it was a few hundred fired per casualty. As Mikewint says above this has gone up by a factor of hundreds today. But then you had to stand up to fight with a musket and you can fire them only so often. In the same vein bayonet charges rarely resulted in a bayonet fight. Usually the weaker or less determined side ran away. Nevertheless, in the days of standing up to musket fire, artillery and bayonets the vast proportion of military casualties were from disease.

We focus on the weapons but logistics and hygiene would win your period wars better than having the best weapons. You didn't have to outnumber your enemy. Only out survive him over the course of campaigns. Che Guevara was not caught and killed by better weapons. It was the US rations given to the Bolivian troops that made them able to pursue him continuously.

BTW, as an OT triviality: did you know that Che Guevara used his mother's name, as was often the custom there. His father's family came from Ireland so Ernesto Guevara in the usual naming custom would have been Ernie Lynch. I have a classic 'Che' T shirt I had made with 'Ernie Lynch' emblazoned as the name. Sadly so few people notice and fewer ask why.

 

[Shortround6]

Thank you.

I would also note, as regards to artillery, that it is not only the number of guns/tubes or how modern the gun/carriage but the supply of shells (the guns are just the delivery system for the shells) and the command-control system for the artillery. How many radios for the forward observers and for the different batteries to co-ordinate fire or lacking enough radios, enough field phones/telegraphs and enough wire.
The Italian gunners were often noted as standing by their guns to the last minute and doing everything they could to support the infantry but artillery duels are a really a battle of logistics and without a decent supply of shells and adequate transport to get the shells to the guns the exact model of gun becomes much less important.

Modifications to the Carcano rifle/carbine would have been one of the easier things to fix but also would have had the least effect in the end to the Italian war effort.

 

[Shortround6]

My father fought in North Africa and never thought that Italian soldiers were individually poor opponents but lacked leadership and kit. The large numbers of prisoners was a function of their immobility leaving them stranded when Axis forces withdrew. The Germans always seemed to have lorries.
.

Sometimes commandeered from the Italians.

It may not be so much the evolution of the long arm as it is the advent of automatic weapons that saw the vast increase in number of rounds fired.
In round ball musket days it was uncommon to fire more than a handful of volleys before one side or the other charged. Since it was nearly impossible to reload while running that pretty much stopped the shooting wither you were charging or running away.
Minnie balls changed combat in that they finally stopped standing up shoulder to shoulder and one behind the other and thus stopped being a mass target (miss one guy but hit the guy next to him) and quickly (comparatively speaking, round ball musket tactics had been fixed for decades if not well over a century) changed to laying down or taking cover behind objects making for much smaller targets which require more rounds fired.

The idea of interdiction fire or harassing fire didn't really exist in black powder days either.
Perhaps I am wrong but I don't know any cases of platoons of troops firing their muzzle loaders in the general direction of the enemy at random times during the night hoping to catch one or two individuals stumbling around in the dark.

 

[mikewint]

For that matter aircraft who fly out over enemy lines and drop ordinance are in reality just an extension of artillery, albeit with a smart delivery system rather than just ballistic.
During WWII the US supplied 11 million tons (US tons: 2000lbs: 909kg) of artillery shells to the war effort.
Harassing fire in Ye Olde times often took the form of cannon fire. Muskets could reach 176 yards but with little accruracy so most firing was done at 50 yards or so. The besieging forces would fire their cannons throughout the entire night so as to deprive the opposing forces of sleep then attack. Santa Anna employed this tactic at the Alamo. By the 11th day of the siege he had his cannon on two sides of the Alamo and he began a continuous bombardment of the walls. The defenders were up the entire day and night of March 4-5 trying to repair the crumbling walls. March 5 1836 was the 12th day and the bombardment continued all day and into the night finally stopping at 10PM. The exhausted defenders were soon all asleep including 3 sentries sent outside the walls. At 1 AM March 6 the 13th day of the siege the Mexican army began to move into position surprising and killing the three sentries. Laying in the grass within 100yds of the walls the attack began at 5:30AM. The Mexicans began shouting alerting the defenders or the attact would have been a total surprise. By the time the first shots were fired the Mexicans were at the walls.

 

[Shortround6]

That was harassment with a purpose or goal in mind.

In Vietnam the US often fired artillery rounds almost at random into the surrounding country side with no idea if there were enemy forces there or not. No spotters, not even an hours old contact report. It was "called" harassment fire but if there was nobody there to harass?

At times the only people loosing sleep were the American gunners, the troops that shared the fire base and the Vietnamese civilians the US was supposed to be protecting.

I believe (but could be corrected) that some bases also fired machine guns and/or mortars at random times during the night over the wire even if there was no indication that the enemy was really there.

 

[mikewint]

Not that I was in Arty or spent a lot of time at firebases but I do not recall any such random Arty shots except to dial in a gun that had been moved or altered or crew training. We had our grid maps and there was in most cases a FAC overhead WITH an SF spotter on board as the AF pilot generally was not all that familiar with ground operations or requirements (the AF loved their jets).
Most firebases had quad 50s spotted around the base but again I do not recall any random firing of them unless sentries spotted something or at least thought they did. Sappers were common and the bases were surrounded with various types/kinds of booby traps so if one of these tripped... Night firefights were kinda cool as we and they used different colored tracer rounds

 

[Old Wizard]

 

[fastmongrel]

The idea of interdiction fire or harassing fire didn't really exist in black powder days either.
Perhaps I am wrong but I don't know any cases of platoons of troops firing their muzzle loaders in the general direction of the enemy at random times during the night hoping to catch one or two individuals stumbling around in the dark.

During the Crimean War skirmishing parties of British troops fired at Russians at all times of the day and night to keep them honest. The Russians still had smoothbores whilst the British had Minie rifles so they were safe in the knowledge they wouldnt be geting it back with interest.

 

[Elmas]

It depends...
During WWII the escorts of the Axis convoys to N.A. were told to release from time to time some depth charges "to harass" British submarines.
Those charges were an infallible way to find the convoys, if Enigma or other sources did not tell the accurate routing to the Commanders...

 

[Elmas]

In Italy some newspapers say that nowadays between some Lybian militias it is possible to see Fucile mod. 91, more than 120 years after its first appearance… very well kept, it seems…

 

[The Basket]

They got ammo?
6.5? 7.35?
Maybe got rifles but ammo for Carcano is the key. There ain't any about so unless got a secret stash then they are just clubs.