chronology of U.S.- vietnam relations

[plan_D]

I believe you're missing out the fact, syscom, that without Britain's direct intervention and destruction of the Communist guerillas in Indonesia, Indonesia would be Communist. Indonesia didn't just deal with them, the British did. Never heard of "Britain's Vietnam"?

We killed or captured well in excess of three-thousand Communist guerilla's organised in the Indonesian jungles. Doing so Britain lost one-hundred and thirty seven men. Remarkable achievements of the S.A.S made the counter-insurgency a complete and utter success. Where it was said that "white man" could not survive for more than a week, British soldiers were for months on end.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

How long did that conflict last?

 

[plan_D]

I don't know. I believe the direct combat action was less than a year but it's really hard to find out information on it. The British government hasn't even released over half of what that war entailed.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They probably never will either.

Love the siggy too, Family guy rules!

 

[syscom3]

Plan_d, youre refering to the Malayan insurgency, which was a totally sepreate conflict. The Malayan insurgency lasted almost 17 years. The British army wrote the book on how to defeat an insurgency during that time. However, there never were any British troops deployed in Indonesia, although on the island of Borneo, there were border clash's.

There were also problems from 1963-1965 with the Sukarno govt causing problems with Malaya. That was more a nationalist conflict (the creation of a pan-malay country). Some communists were involved, but not many.

Indonesia's communist problem had been brewing for two deacades untill the Suharto govt put an quick end to them. In fact, because the commies were dealt with in a brutally effective and quick manner, they didnt last more than 1/2 year (in 1966).

There was a good movie done in the 80's about this period in time in Indonesia..."The Year of Living Dangerously"

 

[plan_D]

No, there were British troops deployed in Indonesia. Why do you think Britain was so willing to jump into the politics? Britain was in there, in remarkably small numbers, throughout the 50s. Like most operations involving the SAS 'it didn't happen'. The only thing that Britain has fully admitted is that the SAS were there and they won. There's a lot of places the special forces of Britain and America have been ...that we'll never know about.

 

[syscom3]

Small numbers of SAS troops crossing the borders for the occasional ambush or assasination did happen, but to say company sized units were deployed inside Indonesia, that did not occur (except in Borneo. No one lived in those jungles, so no one was wise to it).

London and Washington knew that most of the Indonesian army were anti-communist at heart, but were also nationalistic. Any sizeable number of western forces inside their borders was going to be unnecessarily antagonistic.

And yes, the Brits did win the Malayan insurgency. And fortunatley Sukarno was overthrown before he started a full scale war.

 

[plan_D]

No it wouldn't be antagonistic, since the SAS lads were told to aid any villagers with anything. Hearts and minds which led to the discovery of communist hideouts which the villagers would spy out, or just notice.

 

[syscom3]

In Malaya, yes. In Indonesia, (excpet for the border villages in Borneo, nope.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Isnt that still Indonesia though?

 

[syscom3]

Borneo is quite a big island, shared by Indonesia, Malaya and the Sultanate of Brunei.

The border between Malaya and Indonesia was quite long, and is covered by a dense jungle with hadly any access. I would have been easy for the SAS to cross the border, do their job and then slip away without any notice.

But as I also mentioned, having a squad or platoon criss crossing the border without notice is one thing. Having a company sized unit is going to attract attention.

 

[plan_D]

Who said it didn't attract attention? I just said they came into contact with Indonesian villagers. And, again, you are forgetting that this isn't exactly written down in the official history of Great Britain for obvious reasons. Just like the U.S may or may not have been in certain countries throughout the country.

 

[syscom3]

They came into contact with villagers along the Malaya/Indonesian border on the island of Borneo.

They did not operate in Sumatra (except for small quick raids along the coast), not Java, not the Molluca's nor Irian Jaya, and only a few scattered area's on Borneo.

99.999% of Indonesian territory did not have any British troops enter. If anything was done, it was along the border on Borneo. And it would have involved a small number of settlements.

 

[plan_D]

It's still Indonesia! And they still killed Communists, and directly aided Indonesia militarily and politically.