Cold war jets dirt run way ?

Discussion in 'Post-War' started by Haztoys, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Haztoys

    Haztoys Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Prescott Arizona USA
    Could a cold war jet be flown off of.. And landed on.. A dirt runway?

    And how much of "said" runway would a USA or USSR small fighter of the Cold War need to take off and land ?

    Thanks

    David

    Hazardous Toys inc
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,199
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Most Soviet cold war combat aircraft were designed to be operated from dirt strips -

    As far as take off distances - it depends...
    Load, air temp, runway elevation above sea level, that's for starters....
     
  3. Haztoys

    Haztoys Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Prescott Arizona USA
    So what would max runway length for take off be at 5000 feet elevation...Just about numbers... Say a "light" load..?

    Thanks

    David

    Hazardous Toys inc
     
  4. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    I can't find any pics but i believe the Mig 23 even had a "mudguard " on the nose wheel to prevent FOD from being thrown up
     
  5. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,199
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Here are some examples

    These are all at sea level - to figure out what the distances would be at 5000' you would need the POH - there are charts that will give you those distances based on temperature...

    Mig-15 take off distance was 400m
    F-86D Takeoff distance to clear 50-foot obstacle: 3600 feet
    F-14A Minimum takeoff distance 1400 feet
    L-29 Takeoff distance to clear 50-foot obstacle: 3500 feet
     
  6. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,199
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Just remembered, you normally add 10% to the published take off distance for grass or dirt runways, and that's before you compensate for altitude and air temp....
     
  7. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    Did the Warpac hi-performance combat aircraft have arrestor hooks and if they used a rough field was there any arrester system ?
     
  8. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,199
    Likes Received:
    784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    From East block aircraft I've seen really up close or worked on (Mig-15, 17, 19, 21, 23, L-29, L-39, TS-11) I've never seen any arrestor system - No need for arrestor systems on dirt runways, the same way the take off distance is usually and additional 10%, landing distance is usually reduced 10% on dirt strips for most aircraft....
     
  9. Haztoys

    Haztoys Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Prescott Arizona USA
    Thanks..FLYBOYJ

    You seem to really know your Cold War jets

    Will I have anuff land for "my" runway in my back yard (500+ acres 8) )

    And I can legally have the runway in my back yard 8)

    Now I just need the right jet....

    "Yes Mr Tax Man".... That Mig 17 is used for crop dusting on my farm...And "the right to farm law" says I can have the run way ,,Legally

    So I can wright the plane off as a farm tool on my taxes..Just like a truck or a tractor

    That's my plan guys ...

    My tax lawyer almost choked... When I asked him... Then he called me back after he looked in to it ..And said it looks to be legal .. He was laughing so hard he could hardly speak... He says I should of been a tax lawyer the way I find the holes in the tax rules.... ;)

    I know I'm crazy ... But this is just another stupid stunt I'm going to pull off ... In a long line of stupid stunt...LOL ..I've gotten away with ..
     
  10. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    man that sounds cool :lol: if you're really strapped for space though get a harrier.... infact just get a harrier anyway!
     
  11. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    Nah it sounds more impressive saying you have a MiG :lol:
     
  12. R988

    R988 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Office Gimp
    Location:
    Londonium
    could always get a yak-38, maybe the tax man will think it's a farm animal ;)
     
  13. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Apologies for bringing back the dead, but I was Googling "MiG-15 lands on grass runways" and this thread was a hit. (I've noticed that a few times now!)

    Mig 15 lands on grass runways - Google Search

    Although it was part of the design requirement did the MiG-15 ever land on dirt, grass or unprepared strips on a regular basis? Were squadrons based on such runways? Was concrete scarce in early post war USSR?

    Found this...

    A Cold War Defection
    I also found this photo the other day. The Polish Lim-5M (derived from the MiG 17). Notice the four main wheels and the bulky wing root to accommodate them and extra fuel.

    The idea was that the redesigned undercarriage "allows to completely resign from exploitation of these planes on concrete, ashpalt, or other hard surface runways".

    But this was 1960, would this requirement have been really needed then?..

    [​IMG]
     
  14. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hi Flyboyj,

    >From East block aircraft I've seen really up close or worked on (Mig-15, 17, 19, 21, 23, L-29, L-39, TS-11) I've never seen any arrestor system - No need for arrestor systems on dirt runways, the same way the take off distance is usually and additional 10%, landing distance is usually reduced 10% on dirt strips for most aircraft....

    The GDR at least developed arrestor systems for the MiGs and Sukhois they were using, but these were of the barrier type and did not require special equipment on the aircraft.

    One variant of the system was mobile and could be deployed anywhere at short notice, but I don't know if they ever used it for dirt strips.

    The barrier was normally lowered so it wouldn't interfere with flight operations, but could be raised in a couple of seconds. In the early variants it was activated by the tower (normally upon request by the pilot), but the later variants seem to have been triggered when a photocell registered that the beam of light aimed at it across the runway was interrupted. (Grr, what's the English term for that type of sensor? Couldn't find it!)

    I assume photocell-triggering had to be armed by the tower too, or the system wouldn't have become as "MiG catcher" as it was historically, but as "deer catcher"! ;)

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  15. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Pictures ...
     

    Attached Files:

    • P2.jpg
      P2.jpg
      File size:
      43.7 KB
      Views:
      31
    • S20.jpg
      S20.jpg
      File size:
      158.5 KB
      Views:
      31
    • S21.jpg
      S21.jpg
      File size:
      176.9 KB
      Views:
      31
Loading...

Share This Page