Conflict of info on paint scheme

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by magnu, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. magnu

    magnu Member

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    Ever scince seeing a profile of the Bf.109G2 black 4 of Oberfeldwebel Schultz
    8th staffel JG 5 Eismeer, in the profile series of booklets no. 113 I have wanted to have a go at it and have finally managed to get the appropriate decals.
    The B&W profile which came with them gives the upper surface colour of RLM 70 oversprayed with squiggles of RLM 76.
    Whereas the colour profile in the booklet looks more like RLM 75 for the main body colour with RLM 78 squiggles
    After much searching on the net and through refernce books I haven't been able to find any pictorial references for this plane.
    Any help, comments and opinions woud be most welcome

    Ps. apologies for my absence:oops: I blame Fallout New Vegas.
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Which one do you mean? I have found these in Kagero Book about JG5. According to captions the first Black 4 was F-4 variant and the second G-5 version of Bf109 but not the G-2 type....
     

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  3. magnu

    magnu Member

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    Thanks for that Wurger
    The one in the first pic is the one I want to do, which both profiles list as a G2
    Will have to search the stash to see if I have an F4 in 1/48 and if not get one.
    And from the look of the photo the profile with the decals is correct and the main body colour is RLM 70.
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #4 Wurger, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
    I have found these profiles of the Black Bf109. The one with the Polish caption is from AJ-Press book. The first one is of unknown source. As it can be noticed both source say it was F-4 variant. The difference is the paint that was applied overall. The caption in the first profile says it was RLM74 on upper surfaces with "snakes" of RLM76. The profile from AJ-Press book states it was RLM75 with white squiggles.
     

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  5. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    #5 Crimea_River, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
    Below is from Barbas, "Aircraft of the Luftwaffe Aces, Vol 1". Same pic as Wojtek's but also another poorer quality one with the plane right side up. Barbas also says it's an F but not much help on the colours.

    I suppose both the white or the 76 would be possible. 76 was commonly used for squiggles but the white could also have been the temporary winter wash paint. I'd place my bet on one of the grays for the base coat as opposed to RLM 70.

    Edit - The second profile (AJ Press) in Wojtek's post about seems to depict the scheme better than the first IMHO. I'd lean toward that.
     

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  6. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Black 4 is definitely an F-4 Werk nummer 13169, in late 42 it was the mount of Fw. Heinrich Bartels and coded Black 13.

    rather difficult to determine if the dark colour is grey 74 or 75 or green 70 or 71....certainly greys and greens were used on JG 5 aircraft...during the time period....you will need to pick a 'Dark' colour and run with it with the white squiggles, difficult to be proved wrong without hard evidence....which ever one you choose.
     
  7. magnu

    magnu Member

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    Ta very much chaps. I now have a lot more info than when I started. But no 1/48 F4 in the stash.
    From looking at the profiles and pics I think it may be a case of mix and match rather than using the lower one as is. I can see no evidence for the white segment on the prop in the pic where it is upright and if the yellow theater markings are correct then looking at the first pic Wurger posted the rudder may be yellow as well. The second profile does seem to depict the camo. pattern better tho.
     
  8. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I agree about the base colour. Although it's possible that it was RLM 70, I think it's doubtful for the period, more likely RLM74, sprayed over the original camouflage pattern.
     
  9. magnu

    magnu Member

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    Found another profile today showing Bartels Black 13 and Schultz Black 4 but keft them both in work Doh! Looks like the rudder on black13 was mottled 71/75 with a yellow band
    with the 100 victory wreath, hence the wide patch of white/RLM 78 oversprayed to hide it on black 4.
    Also managed to find an Airfix 109F4 in the stash that I may use but would prefer to get hold of either an ICM or Zeveda kit instead.
     
  10. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    ICM is nice. Squadron has them for about 22 bucks right now but I got mine on sale there a while back for 12 bucks IIRC. If you're patient, you may get a good deal on one.

    Can't comment on Zvezda - no experience with these personally.
     
  11. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    The Airfix kit is still a good basic kit, especially if you don't want 'everything open'. The ICM kits are very nice, although from what I've seen, the Zvezda has a definite edge. ICM at Model Hobbies are around £12, with Zvezda approx £15.
    For the price, either of the above beat the Airfix kit, but that's not degrading the latter, which is, after all, 30 years old, and still good.
     
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