Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
I don't buy your argument about the Japanese Destroyers - if US Subs could decimate an IJN fleet I think they would have done so at Guadalcanal and across Iron Bottom Sound etc. Hell do it at Midway why make the planes do all the work? But they were still working out major ... glitches is too mild of a word, defects in the Mark 13 torpedo, and they were limited by the performance of submarines of that era more generally.
But I wasn't aware they had 16 inch guns in dug in fortifications, that is impressive.
Here is maybe one scenario I can imagine - lets say the Japanese try a bombardment, and unaware of the 16" gun or guns, they take some fire and after an exchange of shells, retreat. Once you know they are there, then I say, send your bombardment group back the next day, and bring along the Yamato and the Musashi with their type 94 46 cm guns (18 .1 inches).
Have those hang back a bit, about 12 miles maybe. When the big shore guns open up on the bombardment fleet again, have the Yamato fire star shells at the flashpoints, and then have Yamato and Musashi open up with their 18 x type 94 guns. I think maybe they could knock those out. Those shells hit hard. Maybe they would get hit and sink though that's possible too.
Be a trip to watch it though the way the Marines did from Guadalcanal...
If tactics and strategy were important then the Luxembourg army is set to conquer the world.
The bigger the economy, the bigger the industrial base and the bigger number of tanks I can build.
Hey guys, why does everything have to reduced to a binary either/or? This begins to sound like the eternal argument over airplane performance and armament vs pilot training and skill in a dogfight. In a war of rapid action between roughly equivalent technologies, tactics and strategy become dominant, as was pointed out in the Battle of France and the first Finnish war. Once the rapid action stops and a war of attrition settles in, the stronger industrial base and the economy behind it is likely dominant.Well tiny Finland defeated Russia in the war that happened in that period of the late 30's you were talking about. Their tactics were famous as being among the best developed by anybody during the war
Torch might not have occurred but that's a separate issue.
Hey guys, why does everything have to reduced to a binary either/or? This begins to sound like the eternal argument over airplane performance and armament vs pilot training and skill in a dogfight. In a war of rapid action between roughly equivalent technologies, tactics and strategy become dominant, as was pointed out in the Battle of France and the first Finnish war. Once the rapid action stops and a war of attrition settles in, the stronger industrial base and the economy behind it is likely dominant.
I probably don't have to remind anyone here of Yamamoto's famous prophecy upon hearing of the success of the Pearl harbor raid (but I will anyway) "I fear we have only managed to awaken a sleeping tiger and fill him with a terrible resolve."
Cheers,
Wes
Their hatred of communism has been cited as the real reason that IJ surrendered. The argument is that they feared a Red Army occupation more than the bomb.
I remember my favourite comment is someone claiming Germany won the Battle of Britain because they caused more damage. Shot down more planes. That's not how it works!
For the Finns, catastrophe. For the war weary Soviets, more casualties and attrition than the likely strategic gains warranted. Besides their assets were tied up in battening down eastern Europe. So it didn't happen. Besides, isn't there an ethnic/linguistic kinship between the Georgians (Stalin's people) and the Finns?Had the Soviets decided in the Spring of 1946 to go balls to the wall and invade Finland, how do you think it will go?
The other two hurdles - the vast distances and the prepared defenses, while substantial, maybe aren't insurmountable. Prepared defenses availed nothing in Malaysia. Japanese troops were ideal for a task like storming beaches under fire. They would have formidable support in the form of naval artillery. Ok sure fine Yamato can't use it's big guns for bombardment I'll take your word for it, there are several other Japanese battleships available for that and to duel with the shore guns. The Japanese have the various Atolls and small islands I already mentioned - Midway, French Frigate Shoals, Johnston Atoll, they had 4-6 fleet carriers available and 4 or more light carriers too, plus maybe a dozen slower 'escort' carriers. They had those astonishingly long ranged bombers plus float plane fighters. Most of their aircraft have much longer effective range than most Allied equivalents. Long enough to help cope with Pacific distances. I can also imagine the Japanese capturing some of the other Hawaiian Islands to use as a staging area from which to attack Oahu. Lets remember, Hawaii is far away for the Americans too and IJN Submarines would be waiting between California and Hawaii as well.
The prepared defences in Malaysia (and the Philippines) were not engaged until the Japanese forces were ashore and had covered considerable ground.
would have taken several months to establish a Japanese base of any size there not to mention the time needed to build up your alternatives ( French Frigate Shoals, Johnston Atoll) and transport the needed supplies to build up stock piles at two or more of these "bases".
Hawaii invasion is in Late August or Sept or later?????
Auxiliary Airfields on Kauai and Molokai? with radar sets? Given even 3 months what could the US have done to further fortify the Hawaiian Islands over and above what was done as the Midway was won and the fighting moved to the Solomons and New Guinea.
US defences certainly did not stay static after Dec 7th.