could u slide an airplane sideways

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by mike siggins, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. mike siggins

    mike siggins Member

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    I was wondering if u could slide an air plane sideways to get a shot in an recover like I do with the dirtbike or truck
     
  2. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    yep. have read more than one account where the pilot put his plane in a skid to fire. they would skid or slid to bleed off airspeed to keep from overshooting a plane they were chasing.
     
  3. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Not sure what you mean by "slide an airplane sideways". You mean to side slip (yaw) to get an off angle burst? And what generation airplane are we talking about? Your thinking more Hollywood than reality.
     
  4. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    You can use the rudder to "sweep" the nose side to side, while keeping the aicraft on a relatively horizontal position, if that's what you're getting at.

    That technique is used more for dealing with crosswinds...
     
  5. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    There's a limited amount of side to side that can be done with the rudder to spray bullets on a target or to correct aim. But if you mean turn the plane sideways 90 degrees to shoot a plane beside you then no. I'm guessing more like +/- 5 to 10 degrees may be possible.
     
  6. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Right, you're not going to be able to "skid" (drift) sideways like a sports car...
     
  7. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    But just like a car, if you throw it into a skid you're slowing it down.
     
  8. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    #8 bobbysocks, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
    now that is a good question...how far can you slip/slid/skid and ac. i would venture a guess it would be closer to 20 - 25 degrees ( to land )....when you are doing it is seems a lot further than that. am trying to find info or videos on that right now....
     
  9. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    #10 FLYBOYJ, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
    For most aircraft at lower speeds you're looking at +/- 25 degrees maybe slip or skid.
     
  11. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Unless you are Sean Tucker in the Oracle Challenger. ;) It is possible to go wider, but they are aircraft that are built for aerobatics, not air combat. The exception would be the Harrier in a hover, where it can turn 360 degrees while hovering, and maybe with a little motion fore and aft.
     
  12. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    #12 GregP, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
    The main issue you'd be dealing with is speed. When landing you are at 1.3 - 1.4 stall speed ... maybe 75 - 95 mph or so and a skidding slip or skid is fine, aerodynamic loadwise. But in combat you are at 250 - 450 mph or faster. Skidding sideways at high speed coluld snap off the vertical tail. It WILL do that on a modern airliner or even fighter and HAS.

    So, we'd have to investigate that on a case-by-case basis to know what is possible. I KNOW modern combat jets can do it after a fashion, but am skeptical that WWII fighters could slew very much at higher speeds. Certainly down at low speed, but possibly not above, say, twice stall speed or even less.

    For instance, the P-51 was NOT approved for snap maneuvers and is a candidiate that I'd have to doubt as being capable of slewing at high speed. Others ... maybe.

    Slewing at high speeds in jets was given a new name ... inertia coupling, and was deadly most of the time. A jet fighter, say an early F-100, would attempt a quick pitch and then roll, The nose would rise but the plane would still be going horizontal. Then the pilot would roll it, say 90°. The plane is now in a skidding slew. The rudder and fin snaps off and the plane tumbles to the ground. Happened frequently until it was understood. That's what killed Mel Apt in the Bell X-2 at Mach 3.

    So ... I'd sy it depends on the speed and the particular model aircraft being flown if you want more than a few degrees of slewing.
     
  13. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    In WW1, Werner Voss's last combat with as many as 8 RFC 56 Squadron SE 5's there were several times that he skidded his Fokker Dr I, and flat turned to take quick potshots or to avoid his opponents fire. His ability to put his triplane in unusual attitudes kept him alive ten minutes against some of Britain's foremost aces (McCudden, Rhys Davids, Mayberry)
    His opponents remarked there were times he could have climbed away and escaped the combat, but he refused to quit.
     
  14. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Yup, WWI whee speeds were 120 mph or less.

    A far cry from WWII where speeds were 450+ mph, especially in dives.

    I'm sure a WWII fighter can yaw 25 - 35° at 120 mph. I have my doubts at 300+ mph.
     
  15. Procrastintor

    Procrastintor Member

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    A few degrees at lowish speed, but it does NOT look like a drift or powerslide in a car, you could also go into a flat spin and loudly become one with the ground ;). And at higher speeds the tail can fall apart (or off) So its not advised if you are at 350+ MPH, and likely not even possible after about Mach 1, that said, it has been used in a few instances to slightly correct aim, or to dodge enemy fire during WW1 and 2.
     
  16. pattle

    pattle Member

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    I thought I saw something on dogfights where this happened, perhaps in a P38?
     
  17. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    I remember in Baa Baa Black Sheep, the book, not the TV show, Pappy Boyington said in combat areas he would usually fly in a slight yaw, maybe a wing low too, just to make it a little harder for his opponents to be able to get a good aiming solution on him.
     
  18. davparlr

    davparlr Well-Known Member

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    #18 davparlr, Aug 13, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
    For informational purposes, the aircraft shown on approach with dramatic angles off runway center line were not slipping but were aligned with the crosswind and were in coordinated flight. Only on landing when they tried to align with the runway was the aircraft slipping. It is interesting to note how many landed without aligning with the runway. That would have made an interesting touch down. Maybe on some of aircraft, the gear, like the B-52, was steerable and the aircraft could land without aligning with the runway. In the C-141, we never, or at least we tried to never, landed without aligning the aircraft with the runway. We would drop the upwind wing to keep the aircraft from drifting off the runway and then cross controlled by yawing the aircraft with the rudder, thus slipping, to align with the runway. It was still difficult to grease in a landing in a crosswind. I have flown an approach where the drift angle was 30 degrees on final but luckily it eased up on landing.
     
  19. Kryten

    Kryten Member

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    Tom Neil made a similar comment, he would wind on a little rudder trim to yaw the aircraft making his attacker think he was flying on a different heading to what the plane was, no idea how many times or how successful that was mind you!
     
  20. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe how many times that one aircraft bounced during thier hard landing in that video...the dang wings were flapping like a Gull...
     
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