at6
1st Sergeant
I hope that your picture is up to date.
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No, I don't."Subject to extension." Does anyone really think they're going to repeal this scheme at the end of January? [/cynic]
Rumor has it Ontario will follow in a few weeks, despite the premier and health minister having said last month that the province would not take such a measure.
Following up on this point, the "news" media has been pushing hard for a COVID passport scheme. The latest has the regional public health officers all supposedly on board with the idea, and some have publicly mused that they will implement their own localized passport system if a provincial one isn't brought in --- whether such localized schemes would even be legal and survive court challenge is an open question.
You got a sugar cube? We had to endure needles but at least we didn't get Polio.One of my earliest memories is being vaccinated for polio, a sugar cube covered in a very bitter syrup. A guy who I worked with many times was born in the next town (Middlesbrough), Luigi didnt get the vaccination because his dad was an Italian POW and he took his son back to Italy for a few years and made many other trips later. Luigi contracted polio and had a withered arm because of it. When I worked in Italy there were many people my age or older who had contracted polio at that time. Maybe the problem is that Covid doesnt leave people alive and disfigured or wipe out the young. I see elderly protesters older than me with dogs, they have certainly been vaccinated for polio and TB (which was done when I was in my teens) and their dogs have all been jabbed.
There were controversies about vaccines even then, before I was born. The polio vaccine was a version of the virus that gave immunity without the symptoms. As I read it, polio has always been with us, improvements in knowledge of disease and improvements in sanitation actually led to epidemics. Up to the mid 1800s people were surrounded by polio and if you are infected young enough it does no harm. As people got better sanitation, used more soap and didnt live surrounded by human waste more and more populations hadnt been exposed to it and so were vulnerable. I had a few injections as a child but many blood tests, needles didnt bother me at all but I can still remember the taste that vaccine fffing awful.You got a sugar cube? We had to endure needles but at least we didn't get Polio.
A further follow-up. It appears the Ontario government may be trying to backdoor COVID passports. The provincial government, with no announcement or legislative session, quietly changed the legislation regarding businesses having to follow the rules set out by their local public health officers. This effectively grants the power to local health officers to implement a passport scheme and businesses in that area will have to follow those rules; it no longer has to come from the province itself.
It would appear the Ford government doesn't want to take the potential public hit from directly mandating a passport scheme, and is passing the buck to local public health officers, allowing the government to say it's not its fault for such passport measures, even though it wouldn't have been possible without the change in the emergency legislation.
And we have a no politics rule in this forum.
Another follow-up.
After the Prime Minister basically offered to pay all the costs of the development of a COVID passport system for interested provinces, it appears Premier Ford in Ontario will go back on his comments of earlier this year disparaging the idea of such passport schemes, and will go ahead and implement one. This is expected to be announced early next week. Apparently the offer to pay for it (some might call it a bribe) was enough for Ford to change his mind (and principles).
The vaccine passport schemes are supposedly just public health measures. So technically that means they are not political matters.
Correct. If I recall, and I'm not sure if this was an international agreement or an American only one, but there was some decision made around 1984 that stated that it was preferable to minimize the degree to which quarantines were to be used. From what I recall, the idea was to use the minimum degree to achieve the necessary public safety.Basically:
The state may impose requirements and behaviors conducive to the prevention of the spread of disease (human-to-human communicable or otherwise) commensurate with the dangers presented by the disease.
If a person is not a child, or an adult ward of the state (ie incarcerated or of unsound mind), the person in question may not be forced to accept any medical treatment. The ability to refuse any or all medical treatment is considered a basic right of any autonomous US citizen when within the US boundary. A child may be forced to accept treatment, as can an incarcerated person or a person of unsound mind, if the stated considers it necessary for the individual's or the public's welfare. The only exception to the above is if there is a clear religious violation, or clear increased risk to health of the individual. Any person not accepting treatment, for any reason, will be considered non-compliant (voluntarily or involuntarily).
If the state deems it necessary in order to ensure the health of the public, due to the hazard presented by the non-compliant person, said non-compliant person may be detained and/or isolated (or in the case of a recent legal immigrant or an illegal immigrant - detained and/or isolated and/or deported) until the perceived health risk posed by the individual no longer exists.
All of the above is clear in laws set by the courts and communities, sometimes enacted during health emergencies, sometimes enacted after the health emergencies are over, and sometimes enacted based on medical and scientific advice.
It should also be noted that the legal precedent described above was already in practice in the 13 Colonies during the US revolutionary war period, as evidenced by the handling of the contemporary smallpox epidemic of 1775-1782. Entire towns and communities were quarantined (sometimes voluntarily and sometimes involuntarily), with individuals sometimes being beaten or killed to prevent them leaving quarantine. People were given the choice of vaccination (yes, you read it right, there was already a vaccination for Smallpox in the late-1700s) or voluntary isolation/quarantine. Individuals refusing to be vaccinated or accept voluntary isolation/quarantine, were forcibly isolated/quarantined - either by being sent of to remote communities for the duration, or quarantined in place, under the watchful eyes of the local authorities. (Note that the specific methods and laws of 1775-1796 were set by the individual States - until the Constitution was enacted in 1796, when the States voluntarily ceded authority to the Federal government.)
Similar measures occurred in most of the serious epidemics/pandemics throughout US history. The latest examples (prior to COVID) occurred during the Polio epidemics of the 1920s through the early-1950s, when entire communities/neighborhoods were forcibly quarantined, along with individuals. Earlier examples include Smallpox (first US epidemic 1775-1782), Plague (first outbreak after the Constitution was enacted 1900), Cholera (first outbreak in 1832), Influenza (1918), to name some(most?) of them. In some of the outbreaks/epidemics listed, 'passports' were required that indicated the ships or individuals did not originate from/had not recently traveled through known centers of disease - or in the case of Smallpox had been vaccinated. Imposed isolation/quarantine after arriving at the destination was common. After it was realized that the (bubonic) plague had made it to the West Coast in 1900, many states threatened to quarantine the entire state of California.
There were also sometimes other behaviors mandated, such as the shutting down of businesses, schools, churches, etc.