De-Suckifying the YFM-1: Building an American Heavy-Fighter

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Not sure why you would need to go down that path to correct the image tilt. Do you have IrfanView? There is a brilliant tool in it to correct any image tilt. Wurger is very good with this - I suggest asking him for help.

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I have a Mac, it turns out that it isn't compatible with it. That said, I'm curious if any of the programs depicted here have similar features that can be useful? The problem with attempting to rotate the image is that it requires such a small fraction of a degree that my program (GIMP) won't work.

That said, I'm curious if Wurger would be willing to do me a favor and simply straighten the image out...
 
XBe02Drvr said:
Twin tails are generally a major boon to single engine-out handling in a high powered twin.
I suppose a twin-boomer could be a possibility -- it would kind of be a P-38 ahead of it's time.
Hey, you're only an enlisted guy. You're expendable.
C'mon! It's just plain bad design to produce an aircraft in which some of crewmembers are guaranteed to be turned into salsa even if they bail out...

I've a small question concerning the YFM design itself. Does it necessarily have to be stuck with just the two engines, or, could the tail have been modified to accept a pusher configured engine, with a cruciform tail just ahead of it?
I was thinking of doing that actually. I'm not sure when the first person proposed that idea, but it would need some kind of device to blow off the propeller or ejection would just be (in)glorified suicide...
 
could the tail have been modified to accept a pusher configured engine, with a cruciform tail just ahead of it?
Whoa, Nellie! You thought the P39 turned into a tail-heavy SOB? You put a tail mounted pusher prop on this juggernaut, and you'll either have an impossibly tail-heavy machine or a midships mounted engine with an impossibly long driveshaft and all the problems that entails. The history of driveshafts in recip powered aircraft has not been a happy one. Or you could turn the wing mounted engines around into tractor mounts and hang a pair of DB601s with cannons shooting through the hubs?? Or stick an additional DB/cannon in the nose and have the world's first 4 engine fighter? Der uber-zerstorer!
 
Worked on the XB-42...
 
If one is wedded to the XFM-1's general configuration (why?) the first thing to do would be to redesign the nacelles to get the loaders out. This cuts down their size by at least half, eliminates 400 pounds of crew, makes the gun-laying system superfluous, eliminating more weight, get rid of the internal bomb storage (at this time people had figured out how to hang bombs on the outside ), get rid of the APU, and drive the generators from the engines (they had figured that out, too), getting rid of the APU's weight, volume, and a ridiculous failure mode that could have cost the aircraft.
 
If one is wedded to the XFM-1's general configuration
I'm not, I was just using it as a starting point and then morphing from there.
the first thing to do would be to redesign the nacelles to get the loaders out.
Sure
This cuts down their size by at least half, eliminates 400 pounds of crew, makes the gun-laying system superfluous
Was that a design requirement, or simply the result of of the gun?
eliminating more weight, get rid of the internal bomb storage (at this time people had figured out how to hang bombs on the outside )
I figure that the idea was completely stupid, but I wonder how much of this design was based around being usable as an attack plane?
get rid of the APU, and drive the generators from the engines (they had figured that out, too), getting rid of the APU's weight, volume, and a ridiculous failure mode that could have cost the aircraft.
Definitely!
 
I think the gun-laying system was a result of the low MV of the cannon and the desire to maximize hit probability. The Bell design ended up with such poor performance, it couldn't intercept contemporary bombers — I think it was slower than the B-10, which looked like a flying airbrake — so the hit probability was zero. Getting enough performance to make the likelihood of catching an enemy bomber non-zero is pretty important, and the people in the USAAC and at Bell seemed to have missed that point.

Certainly, carrying bombs inside is lower drag, but it also means that all that extra fuselage has to be carried around all the time, not just when attacking things on the ground. Also, the YFM-1 was huge and not maneuverable, so it would be an excellent target.
 
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I believe the bombs were for attacking aircraft, a somewhat popular concept of the time. The Corsair prototype for instance could carry 20 small bombs inside the wing. The idea ( bit like the British using formations of Defiants) was for a formation of fighters to fly above (and out of gun range?) the formation of enemy bombers and drop the bombs on the formation as a whole.
Could be wrong on this. I would note that the British were fooling around with towing a bomb (mine) on a long cable behind an aircraft and trying to drag the bomb/mine though a formation of enemy bombers and snag a bomber with with cable, for several years into WW II.
Other people may have fooled around with the "bomb the bomber" idea.

If the bombs were actually intended for "air to air" use then you need the lowest drag method of carrying them possible.

Edit: OR the listed (in Wiki?) bomb load of 20 30lb bombs was an alternative armament to the 37mm gun installation. In the early days of the design 6 different armament/equipment proposals were put forth including several that had no cannon in the nacelles but included bombs, chemical tanks or a recon camera in each nacelle.

Due to the timing of the Airacuda (and it's rather ambitious nature) a number of things all failed that contributed to it's poor reputation. The Allison failed to develop the anticipated power anywhere near as soon as hoped (they thought they might get 1250hp per engine at 20,000ft by 1938/39 when planning started in 1936), the wind tunnel estimates were way off even using a 1/2 scale model. The turbos failing to meet service requirements meant that the non-turboed 1090hp engines (at 13-14,000ft) were never going to give the plane the desired speed.
The whole auxiliary power unit (APU) thing was a bit of trap. It powered the electrical system ( 3.5 Kilowatts) 110 volt 800 (?) cycles. the fire control system used electrically driven hydraulic controls to aim the guns from the fire control system. The hydraulic system, an air compressor ( the flaps and landing gear started as pneumatic units.0 were also powered by the APU.
This, in theory, allowed all the power from the engines to propel the plane. Does taking out the APU same enough weight to compensate for the power needed to drive the new engine mounted generators? (granted you can probably turn off the the air pumps and hydraulic pump/s in combat?)

Some sources say the guns were single shot and others say a 5 round magazine was used (or changed with time?) in any case there was no 15-30 round magazine in use at the time the YFM-1 was in development or early service use.

de-suckifing this thing requires;
1. figuring out what you actually want it to do
2. what the actual state of the art of your engines is
3. what an effective armament set up would at the time the aircraft is to enter service!

Edit #2, it was the Army who was anticipating/hoping that the Allison would reach 1250hp at 20,000ft (with turbo). I don't believe Allison was promising that in 1936.

Build a few dozen or hundred airplanes while waiting for high cycle rate/light weight guns or some other future development is using the retrospectroscope a bit too much.
 
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I think the gun-laying system was a result of the low MV of the cannon and the desire to maximize hit probability.
Then why did they want a multiplace fighter? I can only think of a few reasons
  1. To operate the fire-control system
  2. To operate the turret (in the bomber-defense & ground-attack role)
  3. To operate the radio
The Bell design ended up with such poor performance, it couldn't intercept contemporary bombers — I think it was slower than the B-10, which looked like a flying airbrake — so the hit probability was zero.
The B-10 series had top speeds around 210-215 mph if I recall, this design could do about 277. It's still too slow for the job.
Getting enough performance to make the likelihood of catching an enemy bomber non-zero is pretty important, and the people in the USAAC and at Bell seemed to have missed that point.
Actually, they had anticipated around 300 mph or so.

I believe the bombs were for attacking aircraft, a somewhat popular concept of the time.
That's true, and if I recall some of the bombs (or the sights) had a device called a petoscope. It basically would consist of several light sensors that would effectively detect changes in light (i.e. the shadow of a bomber) and detonate the bomb.

The difference between the XF4U and FM-1 is that one carried 20 x 5.2 pound bombs, the other carried 20 x 15-20 pounders (considering 20-pound blast-frag were proposed for CAS...).
The idea ( bit like the British using formations of Defiants) was for a formation of fighters to fly above (and out of gun range?) the formation of enemy bombers and drop the bombs on the formation as a whole.
It seems an idea whipped-up by somebody who doesn't have really much knowledge of fighter-tactics.
Yup... it turns out that it rarely worked, though they took out at least two planes with it.
Other people may have fooled around with the "bomb the bomber" idea.
The concept does work well if you take a rocket-motor behind the bomb, then put it in a streamlined airframe with movable fins, and then put a guidance system in that, and use it to steer the fins into the bomber. It's very effective, and it's known as an air-to-air missile.
 
Pretty much all the AAF fighters were "heavy fighters" to the rest of the combatants. Certainly the P-47 and P-38 were heavy fighters at 13,300# and 17,500# respectively.
 
It took a lotta computer grunt, many technicians were at at hand to help and there were fierce arguments/disagreements - but I believe we have successfully (pun) de-suckified the Airacuda line drawing.
We went with twin-booms, getting the crew closer together and putting the firepower in the nose.
Whatdoya think?
How's your line drawing coming along?

 
I always liked the Airacuda because it is so 1930s. Those of you who are flyers know that ice coming off the wings going through the props on a pusher is not a comforting idea. My poor opinion for the existence of the YFM was to boost Bell Aircraft from a subcontractor into a full fledged aircraft plant. Some of the people knew we may soon need all the companies and designs we could get. These aircraft were trainers for production and development. They were hand built and varied and were modified considerably. I did research for data to build a flying model and found many differences depending when the photos were taken. Thanks to this site I have enough pictures that I began. Model Aviation magazine had a build for 1/2 A twin model which is half done for proof of flight (problems). I spend so much time on this site I haven't been in my cold shop very much. If the info here was less interesting, I could be finished.
 

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