I am a newbie writing about air delivery of supplies to the 101st Airborne at Bastogne on December 23, 1944 and need the dimensions of the cargo doors on the C-47. I read that each plane could only deliver a 'small' amount of supplies because of the 'small size' of the cargo doors and because the planes had very little time to drop supplies before they overflew the one-mile-square drop zone. But if you could get a jeep through those cargo doors they couldn't have been so small. Can anyone provide me with the measurements for those cargo doors and a source? I have already checked R. Francillon's McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920 and also Boeing: Historical Snapshot: C-47 Skytrain military transport. Many thanks.
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A WW2 Jeep was only 62 inches wide, they drove the Jeep up a ramp, then with several men grabbing the handhold bars placed several places on a Jeep body, scooted the Jeep around until it was longways with the C-47s cargo compartment. So the complete door opening only had to be a little bigger than 62 inches.
Then if you look at pictures of a C-47 you'll notice the door is a 2 piece door, about 1/3 forward, 2/3 back door. The front door can be opened in flight, or left off entirely . The rear part has the hinges at the rear, so you can imagine what would happen if you opened the rear door in flight.
You see plenty of pictures with the small front door left off.
There may be some pictures with the rear bigger door left off too, but I'd think a aircraft with a about 6x6 foot square hole in one side of the rear fuselage might handle a little bad.
Then if you look at pictures of a C-47 you'll notice the door is a 2 piece door, about 1/3 forward, 2/3 back door. The front door can be opened in flight, or left off entirely . The rear part has the hinges at the rear, so you can imagine what would happen if you opened the rear door in flight.
You see plenty of pictures with the small front door left off.
There may be some pictures with the rear bigger door left off too, but I'd think a aircraft with a about 6x6 foot square hole in one side of the rear fuselage might handle a little bad.
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fubar57
General
I believe there is another thread here dealing with this question as well. It might be in the Technical Section
EDIT: I typed "C-47 door" into the search box. 2 results showed up. Your answer may be there. It's my bedtime so your on your own
EDIT: I typed "C-47 door" into the search box. 2 results showed up. Your answer may be there. It's my bedtime so your on your own
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It's about this big, Jack for scale.
While the data isn't availabe at the moment ( although still searching ) the idea of the WW2 Jeep width seems to be a good reference. Here are shots of loading of a such vehicle to the C-47. It can be clearly seen that the ramp and the car got the half or more of the door width. So if the jeep was 62 inches wide we can estimate the width of the door at about 90-100 inches or so.
the pic source: the net.
the pic source: the net.
Humm... I'm afraid any kind reference drawings and C-47 maintenance manuals provided guidance for the cargo door dimensions.. However I have found this diagram in a C-47 Handbook. Not sure if the inch ruler at the bottom is for a such measurment but it seems it can be used as the reference.. I have marked the edges of the cargo door with the red lines. The result is about 90 inches what seems to be quite correct if compared to my estimation in the post above.
theh pic source: the net.
theh pic source: the net.
But you can see from the way both doors are made, neither can be opened while in flight.
The front door has a door within a door, that smaller door could be opened, and that smaller door was all the opening they had to air drop supplies through.
And sometimes they took off the entire front half of the door.
If you look at pictures of a AC-47, you'll see that the rear minigun is placed in the front section of the door door, and the entire front part of the door is left off.
The front door has a door within a door, that smaller door could be opened, and that smaller door was all the opening they had to air drop supplies through.
And sometimes they took off the entire front half of the door.
If you look at pictures of a AC-47, you'll see that the rear minigun is placed in the front section of the door door, and the entire front part of the door is left off.
That's true but my estimation is for the entire cargo opening. Unless I grasped the question incorrectly. So.. if we want to know the dimensions of the front and reat part of the cargo door we can use your estimation I agree with. 1/3 and 2/3 is fine I would say. The result would be 30 inches and 60 inches per a door part.
fubar57
General
PM sent. Click on the image to enlarge, you'll have to do math
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- #11
Thanks, but--I specified cargo door-- and those results dealt with jump door/paratrooper exit. By the time I had read the entire thread it seemed clear that the two doors are not the same thing. But thanks!
Thanks all. Let me see if I have this straight. Based on the plane diagrams and deductions from the jeep size, the 'cargo door' is in fact two cargo doors, a smaller one (1/3, or 30") on the left and the larger (2/3, or 60") on the right. Doors were not opened while plane was in the air and the larger one was never open in flight although the plane could take off with the smaller door open (this was the door from which they would drop supplies). However a door that small (30" wide) is one good reason why only roughly one ton of supplies per plane could be dropped at a time. Do I have it right? That answers most of my questions, except one: Capt. Vick: how tall was Jack (so I can get an idea of height of the door/s)?
Yes you got it right. As tyrodtom mentioned the front part of the cargo door had the door withing the door. And these "inner" door could be opened or removed in flight. However this way of making of the door caused the "inner" door being smaller ( less than the 30") than the entire front part of the cargo door. Here is a shot I made using both enlarged parts of posted above pics. The less than the 30" may be not too much for dropping of supplies but it seems to be enough for an average paratrooper..
Will let you know
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On a completely separate and unrelated note, where was the paratrooper in that photo headed? Normandy? Southern France? Thx.
Jack is 5'2"
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- #16
So I'm guessing that the entryway is about 4" higher, ~66" (hard to tell because he's standing inside plane and behind entryway)?
I scaled the drawing posted by Wurger and came up with the following dimensions for the door:
For clarity, the height is where the two doors meet in the middle. The measurements will also be slightly off since it is a sloping surface... but it should be "close enough for government work"!
For clarity, the height is where the two doors meet in the middle. The measurements will also be slightly off since it is a sloping surface... but it should be "close enough for government work"!
The caption says "Corporal Joseph J. 'Joe' Oleskiewicz, 3rd Bat., 506th PIR (RHQ), KIA in the Netherlands on 30 September 1944. One of the members of the Filthy Thirteen." However it seems that the guy is John Hale. Here is a link to another forum with the discussion.
which is what parachutist? Joe Oleskiewicz or John R. Hale ("Peepnuts")
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- #19
MBSchrodinger
Airman
Quickearch on Aircorps Library gives me the rough info:
Cargo doors start at station 450 1/2, front cargo door ends at 490 1/2. Rear door goes to ~535.
Drawing number 5142704.
