Do we need bigger amphibian water bombers? (2 Viewers)

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View: https://globalnews.ca/video/10709896/demand-for-canadian-made-water-bombers-on-the-rise

De Havilland Aircraft of Canada Limited must have full order books for the Canadair CL-415/515, but the production rate is less than a half dozen aircraft annually.

dehavilland.com

De Havilland Canadair 515 - De Havilland Canada

Building on the exceptional operational capability of the CL-415, this next generation aircraft offers significant benefits to operators, including design changes that incorporate new materials, and corrosion protection to reduce maintenance costs.
dehavilland.com dehavilland.com
skiesmag.com

De Havilland preparing to move DHC-515 Firefighter into production phase - Skies Mag

While De Havilland is still working to complete contracts with launch customers for the DHC-515, it has started manufacturing parts in Victoria, B.C.
skiesmag.com skiesmag.com

Perhaps a competitor in this class of compact, flying-boat water bombers is needed? But beyond the Japanese ShinMaywa US-2 there's no other flying boat of this size in production in the West. The better option might be for another larger manufacturer to license-build the CL-515.
 
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This was in my feed this morning:


Cal Fire will receive two more CL-415 Super Scoopers from a Canadian non-profit to replace the one damaged Thursday by a drone strike as it was fighting the Palisades Fire, The War Zone has learned. This will take the total force of Super Scoopers currently available to Cal Fire from one to three. In addition, it is hoped that the aircraft, which has a hole in its left wing, will be back on line by early next week. The appearance of the drone in the firefighting area, despite restrictions, temporarily grounded all firefighting aircraft working that fire, as The War Zone was the first to report.

"The new planes will be sent in the middle of next week if the weather is good for flying," Stephane Caron, spokesman for the Quebec-based SOPFEU non-profit, told us on Friday. At issue, he said, are the winds and snow often present in Canada during this time of year that can often keep aircraft grounded. The organization has eight CL-415s and six older CL-215s, Caron explained.

www.twz.com

Two More CL-415 Super Scoopers On The Way To Fight Palisades Fire After One Damaged By Drone

Officials hope the aircraft hit by the drone will be repaired and ready to fly again early next week.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
This will take the total force of Super Scoopers currently available to Cal Fire from one to three.
Click to expand...
Three? For the worst urban fire disaster to hit North America since San Francisco fire of 1906? During the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire in Alberta, Canada, there were 14 water bombers deployed to help fight the fire. We have over sixty operational CL-415s or upgraded CL-215s in Canada. The country is covered in snow or rain until at least April, so I'd like to see Canada send a dozen aircraft to LA asap. Let's go.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvPF4W56cXk
 
Admiral Beez said:
Three? For the worst urban fire disaster to hit North America since San Francisco fire of 1906? During the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire in Alberta, Canada, there were 14 water bombers deployed to help fight the fire. We have over sixty operational CL-415s or upgraded CL-215s in Canada. The country is covered in snow or rain until at least April, so I'd like to see Canada send a dozen aircraft to LA asap. Let's go.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvPF4W56cXk
Click to expand...


The USAF has activated 8 ANG C-130s with MAFFS fitouts as well. The Canadian planes are't the only ones fighting fire.
 
I suggest making the water bomber supersonic. This would drastically reduce the delivery time of water from the ocean to anywhere in the US.
1736888448945.png
 
Admiral Beez said:
Given the wildfires across Canada and the US, does North America need an amphibious water bomber larger than the twin-engine Canadair CL-215/415?

The Russians, for example have the much larger Beriev Be-200 and the Chinese the AVIC AG600M, while Japan is proposing a water bomber variant of their ShinMaywa US-2. The later two of these larger water bombers are four engined.

www.flightglobal.com

Japan's ShinMaywa floats fire-fighting US-2 amphibian

Japan's ShinMaywa Industries has unveiled specifications for a fire-fighting variant...
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com
Click to expand...
So, what is the answer to the Admiral's question today? Yes?
 
It's too bad the Martin JRM Mars water bombers are out of service. The Mars carried 27,000 L (7,200 US gal) (6,000 imp gal) of water, loaded by scoops that allowed 27 tonnes of water to be taken on board in 22 seconds. By comparison, the Canadair CL-415 carries 6,137 L (1,621 US gal) of water.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9FwSXBcFTWE&pp=ygUYbWFydGluIG1hcnMgd2F0ZXIgYm9tYmVy

I'd love to see a new US spec for a four engined water bomber of this scale. First of all, who would spec it? I assume the US Forest Service, as the Air Force or Coast Guard doesn't really apply. And then you'd need to find more customers to make it viable. Then Lockheed-Martin can dust off the plans for the JRM.

The only other flying boat water bomber available to the West, the four engined Shin Meiwa US-1A, can carry up to 7,500 liters (1,980 gallons) of water or fire retardant, which isn't much better than the twin engined Canadair (DeHavilland) offering.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
…..

The only other flying boat water bomber available to the West, the four engined Shin Meiwa US-1A, can carry up to 7,500 liters (1,980 gallons) of water or fire retardant, which isn't much better than the twin engined Canadair (DeHavilland) offering.
Click to expand...
But it is "readily" available.
 
The US-1A is no more. Withdrawn from JMSDF back in 2017.

The US-2 successor is in very low rate production for the JMSDF for the air sea rescue role. They only have 6 to 8 in service. A fire fighting version was proposed way back in 2010 but so far no customers. Greece reportedly investigated it back in 2018/19, but nothing came of it. 15t (15,000 litres) water / retardant load. Reported cost then was $81.95 million per aircraft.

www.flightglobal.com

Japan's ShinMaywa floats fire-fighting US-2 amphibian

Japan's ShinMaywa Industries has unveiled specifications for a fire-fighting variant...
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

A CL-415 in 2023 was reported to cost $37 million and was then considered to be the most expensive fire fighting aircraft available.
 
If the warming continues, investing in a Mars-sized aircraft or larger will be wise.
Maybe I simplify it but costs per litre of water carried will be lower.
Even if the new Martin Mars is $200M, the costs of wildfires are many billions yearly.
 
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