- Thread starter
- #21
Crimea_River
Marshal
Read the link that Dana Bell posted above.
**** DONE: GB-48 1/48 SBD-1 Dauntless - Carrier & Maritime Patrol A/C of WWII
- Thread starter Crimea_River
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I just re-read Dana Bell's link a few times. Can't seem to find out why that or any color was used for aircraft interiors.
Hi Rob,
I've got time to give the quick version of the story, but there's a lot more buried in the records. In the early 1930s the standard finish coat for aircraft metal was two coats of primer and a finish coat of aluminized lacquer (or enamel). In the mid-1930s Wright Field suggested to Northrop that aluminum paste or powder could be added to the second coat of yellow zinc chromate primer, which would then double as the finish coat - saving the costs of a third factory spray application. Some time later Northrop wrote back that the idea was working pretty well and, oh - by the way - the aluminized yellow zinc chromate now was green. Wright Field responded not-a-problem, and the first interior green version was born - at least on Northrop aircraft.
By that time the military had begun flying more and more night missions. Instrument panels were illuminated by cockpit spot lights, rather than the internally illuminated instruments we're used to today. The aluminum-finished cockpits of non-Northrop aircraft were reflecting too much light onto the instruments, causing problems for pilots, so the AAF began looking for less reflective solutions. One idea seems to have been a slightly darker cockpit green, adding small amounts of black pigment to the zinc-chromate/aluminum formula, though this formula may have predated the AAF's problems with night cockpit illumination. Anyway, that's where were got Yellow Green.
At the same time, Douglas was painting the cockpits of its DC-2s and -3s a very dark duPont color called Pine Green (again - reducing instrument reflections on commercial night flights). Unclear as to which color was better, Wright Field sent a C-33 and an A-17 to each base to gather pilot impressions. It turned out that pilots flying under canopies preferred the Yellow Green, while aircrews flying in cabins (new bombers and transports) preferred the darker green. There was no testing of black, dark gray, brown, or any other color.
When aluminum was in short supply in 1942, aluminum was dropped from the Yellow Green formula. There were several interim greenish mixes, but by early 1943 the Army and Navy standardized a mix of zinc chromate and black that was called Interior Green. This was the first zinc chromate mix that had a standardized color chip. Also, since Interior Green wasn't developed until 1943, it would be very unusual for an earlier aircraft to have an Interior Green cockpit.
That's the short version, but I hope it helps clarify things...
Cheers,
Dana
I've got time to give the quick version of the story, but there's a lot more buried in the records. In the early 1930s the standard finish coat for aircraft metal was two coats of primer and a finish coat of aluminized lacquer (or enamel). In the mid-1930s Wright Field suggested to Northrop that aluminum paste or powder could be added to the second coat of yellow zinc chromate primer, which would then double as the finish coat - saving the costs of a third factory spray application. Some time later Northrop wrote back that the idea was working pretty well and, oh - by the way - the aluminized yellow zinc chromate now was green. Wright Field responded not-a-problem, and the first interior green version was born - at least on Northrop aircraft.
By that time the military had begun flying more and more night missions. Instrument panels were illuminated by cockpit spot lights, rather than the internally illuminated instruments we're used to today. The aluminum-finished cockpits of non-Northrop aircraft were reflecting too much light onto the instruments, causing problems for pilots, so the AAF began looking for less reflective solutions. One idea seems to have been a slightly darker cockpit green, adding small amounts of black pigment to the zinc-chromate/aluminum formula, though this formula may have predated the AAF's problems with night cockpit illumination. Anyway, that's where were got Yellow Green.
At the same time, Douglas was painting the cockpits of its DC-2s and -3s a very dark duPont color called Pine Green (again - reducing instrument reflections on commercial night flights). Unclear as to which color was better, Wright Field sent a C-33 and an A-17 to each base to gather pilot impressions. It turned out that pilots flying under canopies preferred the Yellow Green, while aircrews flying in cabins (new bombers and transports) preferred the darker green. There was no testing of black, dark gray, brown, or any other color.
When aluminum was in short supply in 1942, aluminum was dropped from the Yellow Green formula. There were several interim greenish mixes, but by early 1943 the Army and Navy standardized a mix of zinc chromate and black that was called Interior Green. This was the first zinc chromate mix that had a standardized color chip. Also, since Interior Green wasn't developed until 1943, it would be very unusual for an earlier aircraft to have an Interior Green cockpit.
That's the short version, but I hope it helps clarify things...
Cheers,
Dana
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
AND NOW I KNOW!
I could make a quite lengthy and boring thread of that topic.
I've wondered why paint aircraft interiors that specific color for years. I thought it was so crash investigators could tell whether or not it was the inside or the outside of a wreck. And as time went on the color was kept as tradition.
Thanks!
T Bolt
Colonel
Wonderful informative post Dana!
I'll be saving it in my camouflage color info file.
I'll be saving it in my camouflage color info file.
- Thread starter
- #26
Crimea_River
Marshal
I agree. The only thing I'm now unsure of is the actual colour that I achieved as it looks much more "olive" than what the colours in Dana's link look like, at least on my computer screen. That said, a number of my references do show a colour more on the olive side. It's what I got when mixing black into yellow zinc chrome and more black would have made the colour brown.
- Thread starter
- #27
Crimea_River
Marshal
While yet another blast of primer is curing on my Typhoon, I turned back to this project and added some detail bits.
The right side of the pit received some Eduard PE parts. Over on the pilot's side, I added the console for the dive/landing flap levers and straps for the oxygen rebreather box which I painted a slightly different shade of green. This unit also shows up in the gunner's office. Various other switch panels can be seen as well.
On t'other side, trim wheels, engine control and bomb release levers were added as was the leather map folder.
The cockpit floor/IP assembly has received the instrument parts, cowl flap lever and fuse panel. The rudder actuating cables were not very convincing, being represented in the kit as stout rods (see pics in post 13) so these were cut off and replaced with stretched sprue which look much better. Next to the left heel rest is a PE undercarriage position indicator and the large lever just behind it operates the arrestor hook. The two connected levers on the far left side are the fuel wobble pump handles. There are more parts yet to be added here.
I still have to detail paint and highlight some of the moulded boxes and other bits, after which I plan to gloss coat all this stuff and run a wash over it. Then I'll flat coat it, chip it, and gloss the instrument faces before gluing the fuselage halves together. Thanks again for your interest.
The right side of the pit received some Eduard PE parts. Over on the pilot's side, I added the console for the dive/landing flap levers and straps for the oxygen rebreather box which I painted a slightly different shade of green. This unit also shows up in the gunner's office. Various other switch panels can be seen as well.
On t'other side, trim wheels, engine control and bomb release levers were added as was the leather map folder.
The cockpit floor/IP assembly has received the instrument parts, cowl flap lever and fuse panel. The rudder actuating cables were not very convincing, being represented in the kit as stout rods (see pics in post 13) so these were cut off and replaced with stretched sprue which look much better. Next to the left heel rest is a PE undercarriage position indicator and the large lever just behind it operates the arrestor hook. The two connected levers on the far left side are the fuel wobble pump handles. There are more parts yet to be added here.
I still have to detail paint and highlight some of the moulded boxes and other bits, after which I plan to gloss coat all this stuff and run a wash over it. Then I'll flat coat it, chip it, and gloss the instrument faces before gluing the fuselage halves together. Thanks again for your interest.
Good work so far Andy!
T Bolt
Colonel
Very nice Andy
Looks good Andy
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Developing very nicely.
fubar57
General
Agreed 
Nicely done Andy.
- Thread starter
- #35
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks my friends. Work continues with the addition of more hardware to the pit. In the pic below, the hydraulic hand pump handle has been glued in place in front of the fuse panel and the control column and actuator part has been dry fit. Something I didn't know before I started this build was that the gunner had a full set of controls that enabled him to fly the aircraft from his position, hence the rudder pedals and stick.
The gunner's stick, when not in use, was separated and stowed in a rack on the left side of his compartment. I chose to show it this way and so cut it off and slid it into the Eduard PE rack. You can see the unpainted stick on the side wall below. The moulded canvas boot where the stick was cut off got a bit of tape stuck on to represent the flap that surrounded the stick.
One thing that AM would have you do is to add a flare pistol to the port side of the gunner's pit. The pistol supposedly fired through this opening, however a check of the many reference pics of this particular bird showed no such opening.
It was an easy decision then to plug the hole and omit the flare pistol and so a styrene dowel was glued into the hole. This will be cut off and sanded smooth once the glue has fully set.
Thanks for looking in.
The gunner's stick, when not in use, was separated and stowed in a rack on the left side of his compartment. I chose to show it this way and so cut it off and slid it into the Eduard PE rack. You can see the unpainted stick on the side wall below. The moulded canvas boot where the stick was cut off got a bit of tape stuck on to represent the flap that surrounded the stick.
One thing that AM would have you do is to add a flare pistol to the port side of the gunner's pit. The pistol supposedly fired through this opening, however a check of the many reference pics of this particular bird showed no such opening.
It was an easy decision then to plug the hole and omit the flare pistol and so a styrene dowel was glued into the hole. This will be cut off and sanded smooth once the glue has fully set.
Thanks for looking in.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice work Andy.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The detail you guys craft into these kits is amazing.
- Thread starter
- #39
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks all. I glossed the internals a couple of days ago and applied washes and highlighting yesterday. The latter consists of lightening the base colour slightly and applying it to the high points of the ribs and stringers to make them pop. I also toned down the very red looking map case and detail painted some of the other boxes.
On the floor, I will need to check how much of the moulded tubing will be seen and detail these to suit. Otherwise this area is done.
The pilot seat received the PE seat belts. No shoulder harnesses on this particular plane. I only noticed the faint ejector pin mark now but won't tell anyone if you won't.
All of the above will eventually get a matte coat before gluing them into the fuselage. The gunner's seat/turret ring is a real gem for detail being made up of 5 delicate parts. There were side armour plates moulded into the seat hanger rods but these needed to be removed for a pre-war subject like mine. Glossing and washing is still to come on this part as is the addition of the seat belts and back rest.
Thanks again for following along.
On the floor, I will need to check how much of the moulded tubing will be seen and detail these to suit. Otherwise this area is done.
The pilot seat received the PE seat belts. No shoulder harnesses on this particular plane. I only noticed the faint ejector pin mark now but won't tell anyone if you won't.
All of the above will eventually get a matte coat before gluing them into the fuselage. The gunner's seat/turret ring is a real gem for detail being made up of 5 delicate parts. There were side armour plates moulded into the seat hanger rods but these needed to be removed for a pre-war subject like mine. Glossing and washing is still to come on this part as is the addition of the seat belts and back rest.
Thanks again for following along.
Users who are viewing this thread
Similar threads
- Sticky
