**** DONE: GB-58 1/48 Boulton Paul Defiant Mk.1 - Night Fighters all Eras

[destrozas]

I, in my limited capacity, can put how I assembled it, although it is not the airfix mold, I do explain how I painted the black color to give depth to it and what colors to use, I was guided by an article in the modeling magazine SAM,

*** DONE 1/48 BP Defiant NF Mk.II - Night War of WWII

Username: destrozas First name: Sergio Category: intermeadilly Scale: 1/48 Manufacturer: Classic Airframes #95 404 Model Type: Boulton Paul defiant NF MK II accesory: It included in the kit a few photo-etched and cockpit resins and master model browning m2 0.303" art box and this profile

ww2aircraft.net

 

[Wurger]

I did a little kicking around the web trying to determine if N1801 was a night fighter 'new' build or a referb from previous service. Not a big deal, but it may help to understand the color choices that Airfix made. I went to their site and found the article decsribing the 'development of the kit; interesting. I went ahead and bought an Airfix membership, hopefully within this I can ask for more info? In the article they do site their sources and maybe there is more to be found? Just costs ~10 US for membership and a welcome kit with a 1/72 model is a coming. That and discounts...

The N1801 was the F.Mk.I of a batch of the 202 aircrafts ordered in February 1938 and being delivered from the June 1940 to the October 1940. The N1788- 1822 were the last block of 25 planes of the batch. So the time for the delivering should be about the September-October. It resulted in not being the NF variant with the AI radar. The no. 264 Squadron kites got the AI device in January 1941. In that time, all Defiants of the squadron were the Mk.I later when the AI devices were installed, redesignated as Mk.IA. Also the way the NF planes had to be painted overall with the RDM.2 was decided at the end of the October 1940. But the order was published in the mid of the November 1940 oficially. Somehow the BP had found out about the order in a couple of days before it was announced. Therefore they started to use the RDM 2 paint on the production lines slightly earlier.
IMHO the N1801 was already delivered to the MMU or the squadron by the time. I have seen a pic of the N3333 that was delivered to the no.255 Squadron in December 1940. She was in the day fighter camo. The N3306-3360 was the first block of the 161 Defiants next batch ordered in May 1938 and delivered November 1940 - February 1941. Later pics of her show the plane painted black. So a few weeks later the N3333 had to be repainted black overall.

 

[Ralph Haus]

The N1801 was the F.Mk.I of a batch of the 202 aircrafts ordered in February 1938 and being delivered from the June 1940 to the October 1940. The N1788- 1822 were the last block of 25 planes of the batch. So the time for the delivering should be about the September-October. It resulted in not being the NF variant with the AI radar. The no. 264 Squadron kites got the AI device in January 1941. In that time, all Defiants of the squadron were the Mk.I later when the AI devices were installed, redesignated as Mk.IA. Also the way the NF planes had to be painted overall with the RDM.2 was decided at the end of the October 1940. But the order was published in the mid of the November 1940 oficially. Somehow the BP had found out about the order in a couple of days before it was announced. Therefore they started to use the RDM 2 paint on the production lines slightly earlier.
IMHO the N1801 was already delivered to the MMU or the squadron by the time. I have seen a pic of the N3333 that was delivered to the no.255 Squadron in December 1940. She was in the day fighter camo. The N3306-3360 was the first block of the 161 Defiants next batch ordered in May 1938 and delivered November 1940 - February 1941. Later pics of her show the plane painted black. So a few weeks later the N3333 had to be repainted black overall.

Great information. A wonder how onw finds these things. Thanks, could possibly explain Airfix's alumininum color call outs? Conformation will be to find some photos of her sister production batch before they too were transformed to night fighters.

 

[Ralph Haus]

I, in my limited capacity, can put how I assembled it, although it is not the airfix mold, I do explain how I painted the black color to give depth to it and what colors to use, I was guided by an article in the modeling magazine SAM,

*** DONE 1/48 BP Defiant NF Mk.II - Night War of WWII

Username: destrozas First name: Sergio Category: intermeadilly Scale: 1/48 Manufacturer: Classic Airframes #95 404 Model Type: Boulton Paul defiant NF MK II accesory: It included in the kit a few photo-etched and cockpit resins and master model browning m2 0.303" art box and this profile

ww2aircraft.net

Great reference. Interesting the use of gause to 'soften' paint look. I'll try that on my paint mule first though. May give the 'beaten up' look that these night fighters had?

 

[Ralph Haus]

I did spend time today perusing the Britmodler website for all the hits: ROM2 - ROM2A - Special Night - Night - PTP 308 -Defiant night fighter .... My HEAD hurts!!!

I have decided that whatever this bird is painted will be from my stash. I did do some experimenting on the paint mule, swabbing on a patch of the color candidates with a brush (I'm SO glad I switched to air brushing), not the best representation of what the colors will look like when applied properly, but the 'flavor' is there. The top area, I brushed on a couple of coats of Tamiya Clear Flat, mistake. It did not improve on what I was going to uses for decision making, Anyway, see for yourselves. I have made two selections (actually 3), a coin choice will occur in a few weeks. Do I want to represent what appears to be a 'greyish' color in the available photos, or go for the 'flat black' look (which seems to be the finish of the early 'conversions)?

 

[SaparotRob]

To my uneducated eye, they all look right. This is based on grainy black and white images.

 

[fubar57]

My thoughts. Use 5 as a base coat and then 6 & 2 as weathering

 

[Ralph Haus]

My thoughts. Use 5 as a base coat and then 6 & 2 as weathering

George - One thing I am going to try and that is the 'gauze' affect? Seems like applying the darker color, let it cure, and the lay the gauze over the area and spray with the lighter color? I'll give the mule a work out before I do anything to the real bird. Need to find a fairly open gauze, or not. Experimentation will help.

I think with the 'vintage' of this one (being a conversion) the flatter black would be more accurate as the base (5) , and highlighting (gauze affect?) with either Nato Black (1) or Tire Black (4).

Will see. May load up the others to use as highlight/weathering. The mule wont mind!

Were you suggesting using the 6 or 2 for panel line fillers? Or doing a watered down misting over the base? Misting I may be able to pull off. Panel lines,not so much, with 'real' paint.

 

[fubar57]

PM sent Ralph

 

[Wurger]

The DTD 308 was a matt cellulose paint used for coating of fabric skin. The paint was the satin black with a navy blue hue consisting of carbon black or black dye and ultramarine . And the colour was called the Night.
The RDM2/RDM 2A that actually replaced the DTD 308 were called the Special Night. It was a purer black than Night and was made as an ethyl cellulose dope pigmented with a special black dye on a metallic oxide base. There were the chemical difference between the RDM 2 and RDM2A alsthough the appearance of both was the same. The Special Night was 'blacker' in its original, non-degraded form than the DTD 308.
As memo serves the colour for the Defiants was RDM2 Special Night which was black and sooty. Because RMD2 was in short supply, DTD 308 was sometimes used as an undercoat. As the RMD2 colours wore away the aircraft became very patchy, the DTD 308 being smoother and shinier.

 

[fubar57]

You're gonna go nuts over thinking Ralph. I used Tamiya Nato Black for this

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[Ralph Haus]

You're gonna go nuts over thinking Ralph. I used Tamiya Nato Black for this

View attachment 723955
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Over think? Nah! I usually just 'regret'. I had thought about just using the Nato Black as the primary, but the time line, when the bird was first transiitioned (can I say the here?), would almost dictate an actual black, with some degradation of course. The mule will be extra thick in a week or so!

 

[Crimea_River]

I think you should mix 2 parts of number 2 to 1 part number 6 to 1 part number 3.

Kidding of course. Britmodeller can be a great resource but at times I think it's a bit over the top with Munsell values and 35 responsnses to what hue green one should use.

 

[Ralph Haus]

I think you should mix 2 parts of number 2 to 1 part number 6 to 1 part number 3.

Kidding of course. Britmodeller can be a great resource but at times I think it's a bit over the top with Munsell values and 35 responsnses to what hue green one should use.

But, it's always so proper. I usually pick up a new term or two reading some of the replies! But you are right on with the 'over the top'; that's why my head hurt!

 

[Airframes]

Ralph, don't worry too much about the overall colour finish. There are too many factors when viewing colour and B&W photos of the actual aircraft, whether period photos or the RAFM example. Such things as exposure, colour balance, lighting etc, when the original photo was taken, and then reproduction on the printed page or PC monitor all have an effect on the colours, tones etc etc.
Add to that when the photos were taken - sunny day on Tuesday, aircraft not flown for three days. Dull day the following Tuesday, and aircraft has been out in the open after a couple of "Ops" in poor weather, etc etc.
Also, the Defiant wasn't in service as a night fighter for very long, or indeed in service in general for that long anyway.
Then there is the "scale effect", where the physical size of a model may determine what colour is actually used. Should it be black, blue-black, dark grey etc, when one colour may look fine in one size, but totally. wrong on another size, due to the eye seeing things as we "expect to see them".
Just get it to "look right" without worrying too much about total accuracy as, let's face it, there's no one around now to say "that's wrong, It should be 0.0005 % lighter or whatever.

With a multi-colour scheme, things, of course, would be different, especially if photo evidence of a particular subject aircraft shows various areas of fading, patches etc etc, but with an overall single colour, especially matt black, then a "general representation" is all that is needed.
The pic below shows my 1/48th scale Beaufighter built around 16 years ago, and brush-painted with various "shades" of black to represent the same colour scheme used when the Defiant went into service as a night fighter around the same period.
Not perfect but acceptable.

 

[Airframes]

Oops !

Don't know what happened there, but the pic seems to have got in the way of the text !

 

[fubar57]

Very large comma

 

[Crimea_River]

Often happens when you inadvertently have the cursor active in mid sentence rather than at the end of your text. Easy to go back and edit. Just highlight the text under the photo, right click and select CUT, move the cursor to the last word above the pic then click and select paste.

And some sage words from Terry there on colours.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Often happens when you inadvertently have the cursor active in mid sentence rather than at the end of your text. Easy to go back and edit. Just highlight the text under the photo, right click and select CUT, move the cursor to the last word above the pic then click and select paste.

And some sage words from Terry there on colours.

Totally agree with all on all points. I'm just wanting to do a 'best effort' on being at least close. And that's where I suspect I'll be, close. Believe me I'm not loosing any sleep over this, but as I had stated years back, being an old engineer and naturally anal retentive, well, thats why I ask so many questions. All these inputs really are greatly appreciated and if I can implement some I'm a happy camper.

 

[SaparotRob]

That is a beautiful model.