Early or late Ki-43-II ???

Discussion in 'Questions on Kits, Decals, Tools and Pilots' started by le_steph40, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello all,

    I have two Ki-43-II in my future projects, but I don't know what kind of model it is... Early or late Ki-43-II ?

    The first project is an aircraft flown by Capt Yasuhiko Kuroe temporary OC of 64th sentai (only one month), Burma in March 1943. Apparently overall IJAAF green on upperfaces with two white stripes on the fuselage, one front the hinomaru et one behind and a blue arrow on the rudder.
    Or a Ki-43-II flown by Yasuhiko Kuroe too but early in 1943 when he was 3rd Chutai leader (64th sentai). Apparently NMF with IJAAF green mottles on uppersurfaces, a white stripe behind the fuselage hinomaru, an oblic white band on the fuselage, yellow arrow on the rudder and yellow spinner.
    Or another version is a Ki-43-II also flown by Yasuhiko Kuroe early in 1943 when he was 3rd Chutai leader (64th sentai). Apparently IJAAF green on uppersurfaces, a white stripe behind the fuselage hinomaru, an oblic yellow band on the fuselage, yellow arrow on the rudder.

    The second project is a Ki-43-II flown by Lt Goichi Sumino when he was 3rd Chutai leader (64th sentai) during December 1943 and early in 1944 after Lt Yohei Hinoki was wounded 27 November 1943. Apparently NMF with IJAAF mottles on uppersurfaces, a white stripe behind the fuselage hinomaru, an oblic white band on the fuselage, yellow arrow on the rudder and yellow spinner (same markings as Kuroe aircraft early in 1943 ?).

    TIA for your help, regards
    St├ęph.
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    According to Kagero TopDrawings the Ki-43-II fighter can be of ....

    The pre-production series ( one round exaust pipe on each of the fuselage sides just behind the engine cowling, small covers for tips of the MG barrels at the top of the engine cowling , small air intake under the engine cowling).

    The early production series - details like for the pre-production one , except the bigger air intake at the bottom of the engine cowling.

    The mid-production series - the exhaust pipes, the bottom air intake like for the early series but the new ( more oval shaped ) engine cowling with longer covers for MG barrels at the top.

    The late production series - the engine cowling with the covers for MG barrels, the bottom air intake like for the mid series. The new exhaust square pipes instead of these round ones on fuselage sides and underwing racks.

    The final production series - looked like the late series basicly but there were 12 ( six for each side ) single exhaust pipes.

    I hope it can help to identify the sub-type of the Hayabusa.
     
  3. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Didn't the early ones, have two bladed props?
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    As memo serves , the Ki 43-I had a such prop. All later variants had the three-blade props.
     
  5. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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  6. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you :thumbright:

     
  7. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Well done Wojtek!
     
  8. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    THX Gents.. :)
     
  9. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    If I well understood, it was very probable that the aircrafts flown by Yasuhiko Kuroe early in 1943 were early production series.
    Regarding Goichi Sumino, I have to find the types delivered to 64th Sentai, 3rd Chutai during 1943... I keep searching... :)
     
  10. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    It is possible. But if you have a picture of the kite we can try to recognize her. Just post it here.
     
  11. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    OK... did you mean the one? If you did it looks like the mid series to me. The bigger bottom air intake, more oval engine cowling , longer covers for MG barrels at the top of te engine cowling, round exhaust pipe on the fuselage side.

    Ki-43-II 64th Sentai_.jpg
     
  12. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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  13. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    The first link leads to the profile I have posted above.

    The second one to the page 34 of the book you told me. Do you mean the image on the page there? If you do it is a brand new Ki-43-II but of the mid-production series. The oval engine cowling is clearly seen and these covers over MG barrels too.

    The Wikipedia shows also the mid series and the final one.... here the mid one..

    [​IMG]

    The last link presents profiles of ...

    Ki-43-II Kou, 64th Sentai, 3rd Chutai, Burma, 1943 pilot: 3rd Chutai leader (could be Capt. Yasuhiko Kuroe till 3.1943 or Lt. Takeshi Endo 3.-5.1943 or Lt. Yohei Hinoki 5.-12.1943). In my opinion the profile is wrong, taking into cosideration the sub-type of Hayabusa. The engine cowling is for the mid-production series but the bottom air intake for the pre-production one. So it is a mix methinks.

    [​IMG]


    Ki-43-II Kai, 64th Sentai, 3rd Chutai, Mingaladon AB, October 1943. The profile presents the Ki-43-II final or modified ( kai ) series with 12 separate exhaust pipes ( 6 for each side )

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    OK... here you are the next profile I found via the net.... but again it's of the mid production series.

    Ki-43-II 64 Sentai Kuroe 1943.jpg
     
  15. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Wojtek, this one is the first that I talk about in the beginning of my post...
    The probability is the aircraft flown by Goichi Sumino late in 1943/early 1944 is a mid-production or a late production series (kai, Fitted with ejector exhaust stacks).
    Regarding Yasuhiko Kuroe, the most probable in early 1943 is an early production series ??? :-/
    I'm lost again... ;)
     
  16. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #16 Wurger, Oct 7, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
    All pictures of the 64th Sentai show either Ki-43-I used in 1941/42 or Ki-43-II used in 1943/44. There is nothing about the Ki-43-II of the early production series. But I'll check again a book about the Sentai.
     
  17. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    According to the book the Sentai got all new Ki-43-I Hei in August of 1942. At the end of the 1942 the 64th Sentai got Ki-43-II Ko.
     
  18. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    It is difficult to say which sub-typy is in the pic accessed with the first link. The exhaust pipe seems to be the square one. So it would suggest the late variant of Hayabusa. But the image is of quite poor quality and the early/mid series can be possible as well because of the engine cowling that looks a little bit like the early one.
    The second link with the decal sheet shows the late variant ( Otsu) with the square exhaust pipe and more oval engine cowling undoubtedly.

    The main problem is that each of references introduced its own way of calling Ki-43 sub-types that makes the indentification difficult. For instance the Aero Detail no.29 present the early variant ( Ki-43-II Ko ) with the bottom air intake of its shape that is said ( by Kagero ) to be of the pre-production series. I found a picture in a book that, believing the caption , presents the Ki-43-II of the 64th Sentai. The bottom air intake looks like the early, smaller one. Also the engine cowling isn't too oval in its shape. To sum up ... all depends on which sub-type of the Ki-43-II Ko you consider to be the early or late one.
     
  20. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #20 Wurger, Oct 8, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
    OK... here you are diagrams of the engine cowling and the carburetor air intake... source of all shots : the Internet.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ki43-I
    [​IMG]

    Ki43-II Initial Type
    [​IMG]

    Ki43-II Early
    [​IMG]

    Ki43-II Late
    [​IMG]

    Ki43-II Finall
    [​IMG]


    And some of info....

    Ki-43-II
    In pursuit of better performance, five Ki-43-I airframes were modified in February of 1942 to be powered by the 1150-hp Type 1 engine (which was the Nakajima Ha-115, a development of the earlier Ha-25). This engine had a two-speed supercharger and drove a three-bladed constant-speed metal propeller. The supercharger air intake was moved from underneath the cowling to its upper lip, with the carburetor intake remaining underneath the cowling. The wingspan was decreased by two feet and the wing area by 6.46 square feet to improve speed at low and medium altitudes. The windshield and cockpit canopy were raised slightly and a new reflector gunsight was fitted. The wing attachment points were strengthened to carry 551-pound bombs. In response to complaints from the field that the Hayabusa was too vulnerable to superficial combat damage, some rudimentary armor protection was provided for the pilot and self-sealing tanks were installed in the wings.

    The improved Hayabusa model entered production as the Army Type 1 Fighter Model 2A (Ki-43-IIa). As the Model 2A entered production, the earlier Model 1 was progressively phased out, until the 716th and last Model 1 left the line in February 1943.

    The carburetor air intake was deepened early in the production life of the Ki-43-IIa. The major production version of the Hayabusa was the Ki-43-IIb, which differed from the IIa only in minor equipment changes. The oil cooler, which had been mounted in a ring inside the cowling ahead of the engine and around the propeller shaft, was replaced by a honeycomb unit mounted inside a still deeper carburetor intake. Late production IIbs had their underwing bomb attachment points moved outboard of the main undercarriage legs to prevent bombs from hitting the propeller during dive bombing attacks at steep angles. Later production IIb aircraft had the oil cooler moved backward from the carburetor air intake and relocated underneath the central fuselage.

    The modifications progressively introduced during the Ki-43-IIb production run were standardized on the Ki-43-KAI. This aircraft was also fitted with individual exhaust stacks that replaced the exhaust collector ring of earlier versions, and provided some amount of residual thrust augmentation. This variant also saw the underwing attachment points moved outboard of the landing gear. Three prototypes were built between June and August of 1942, and the Ki-43-KAI entered service in the summer of 1943. Some sources refer to this variant as the Ki-43-IIc, although this may be a "retrospective" designation introduced after the fact by Western sources for clarity.
     
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