Engine smokes

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Fenton, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Fenton

    Fenton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    hey! every one

    can any one tell me how can check the engine here it is smokes or not.. I am waiting yours reply's.. I know Engine smoke means trouble An engine in good running condition should not produce any smoke in its exhaust. Steam is normal, and may appear to be white smoke on a cold morning. But any other type of smoke in the exhaust means something is wrong.
     
  2. robwkamm

    robwkamm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Owner of gas station, auto repair and towing buisness.
    Location:
    fair Lawn NJ
    ??? Start it and post a video of it for us to see. what engine?
     
  3. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    #3 mikewint, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
    going to be picky here. Steam or water vapor is as invisible as oxygen. When the water rich exhaust hits the cold atmosphere water condenses into small droplets which appear white
    Black smoke is caused by black particulate matter in the exhaust gasses. those black particles are soot of carbon particles. thus you have incomplete combustion i.e. too much fuel too little oxygen or you are running rich
    Blue smoke indicates the presence of oil thus you are burning oil along with the gasoline. your engine cylinders/piston rings are worn. oil is being left on the cylinder walls.
    that's about as far as visual detection will take you.
    a gas analyzer can give you much more information: CO2, CO, Nitrogen oxides, etc.
     
  4. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    Are you talking about an aircraft engine, or a car engine? If aircraft, radial, flat vee, etc? What type of engine?
     
  5. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    evan, would it matter? if it is internal combustion we're still talking about the same mechanical components. rich mixtures are incomplete combustion which produce CO and unburned carbon, black smoke
    besides seeing unburnt oil on the aircraft the burnt/partially burnt hydrocarbons should still give the exhaust a blueish cast.
    I'm not an aircraft guy but I think the same principles should apply
     
  6. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    The kind of smoke that comes out of a radial can point to symptoms that might differ in a non-radial engine. Besides, if a car smokes, it's one thing, but when an aircraft smokes, and the hazard of complete failure makes things much more dangerous in an aircraft.
     
  7. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    Evan, can you be more specific about radial vs non-radial. I don't understand how the cylinder arrangement can alter the exhaust color. I can see that in some radials (like on my B-29) the rear bank runs hotter than the front bank which changes combustion conditions and in some cases (like the B-29) could lead to unseating a valve and even an engine cylinder burn through.
    and a big YES on the danger element. a stalled car pulls over to the side of the road a stalled engine on a plane leads to thing falling out of the sky, not a good thing
     
  8. icepac

    icepac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    engineering aero and engine management systems on current standing mile record holding ford gt TT
    Location:
    west palm, florida
    White smoke means there is a new pope.
     
  9. robwkamm

    robwkamm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Owner of gas station, auto repair and towing buisness.
    Location:
    fair Lawn NJ
    thats the best reply yet. I love it . thanks Icepac
     
  10. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    And he is blessing your engine, so white smoke is good
     
  11. vintage radials

    vintage radials New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    owner
    Location:
    calif
    oil smoke is black above 1 atu of supercharger boost. Usually, oil comes from rings, valve guides and supercharger seals. Oil smoke can be white, blue or black. coolant smoke is usually white.
     
  12. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    Vintage, Aren't all radials air cooled? Didn't know that a supecharger could change the color. I'm guessing that the increased temp burns the oil as well?
     
  13. robwkamm

    robwkamm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Owner of gas station, auto repair and towing buisness.
    Location:
    fair Lawn NJ
    got to love posts like this. original poster never chimes in after posting. whats the point.
     
  14. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    well if he isn't learning anything I am. Always wanted to know more about planes
     
  15. javlin

    javlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    4,765
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Occupation:
    Mgr
    Location:
    MS
    I always wanted to learn more about the pope.
     
  16. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,680
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    well you get to wear little red shoes and ride in the popemobile
     
  17. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,809
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    in the automotive world excessive ( billowing ) white smoke coming from the exhaust pipe is usually coolant. it should have that sweet antifreeze glycol smell with it. this comes from a blown head gasket or worse a cracked water jacket in the head or block. dark smoke from the exhaust should have that burnt carbon smell to it and usually comes from oil. a badly broken piston ring, head gasket blown around the oil return channel, or a blocked oil return holding excessive oil in the rocker covers that leak down the valve guides will do that. white oil from under the hood could be either of those or tranny and power steering fluid.
     
  18. vintage aero engines

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    the supercharger raises the effective compression ratio of the cylinders and the oil from the induction system is fully burned like a dessel. in a liquid engine, coolant burns white. running an engine at night with short stacks really shows what is going on.
    mike nixon
     
  19. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    When starting a radial engine, smoke is inevitable, plus radial have a tendency to seep oil. They say if a radial isn't leaving drips on the ground, it's out of oil. Once running though, they should run clean except when running a rich mixture (typical when breaking in an overhauled engine). Inline engines may smoke on startup, but typically do not.

    Here is what you get when you start a radial:
    [​IMG]

    If it's had too much prime, or if you have spun the engine too long with a startup, it can result in this:
    [​IMG]

    Now, there is also something used in the airshow world called smoke oil (sometimes called "Holy Smoke Oil"). It is basically a mixture of a fine mineral oil and paraffin, so it doesn't burn, but smokes when mixed with exhaust gasses. It is usually injected into the exhaust manifold. There are a number of different systems out there, and some use less oil, but give you anemic smoke. Then there are others that give a ton of smoke, but don't last as long. I have seen some smoke systems burn through 14 gallons of smoke oil in 15 minutes!).

    Rob Harrison makes some really awesome smoke systems. Here is his system on his Zlin in action:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer, Aircraft Restoration
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, California, U.S.A.
    #20 GregP, Oct 4, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
    In a radial without a dry sump, the oil resides on the crankcase. All cylinders below the oil level have oil on the crankcase side. Even the BEST rings leak evntually, and most cylinders below the center of the radial will get oil in the combustion chamber if the engine sits overnight, or even shorter.

    So, if you pull out a radial-powered aircraft that has been sitting for a month or more, you can bet your paycheck that the bottom cylinders have oil in the combustion chamber. It will smoke white when you start the engine until the oil has cleared out and then it starts running smoothly.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. rogerwilko
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    2,166
  2. Violator
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,873
  3. Jaymom
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,140
  4. Lucky13
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    990
  5. varing
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    7,930

Share This Page