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The Mustang doesn't suffer as badly at the pen of Brown if one reads beyond his list of greatest fighters.
"Mustang IV Versus Spitfire XIV
I can see no sure way to victory for either combatant. I have flown both for many hours, and I would probably choose the Spitfire if given the choice in a fight to the death.......I once flew a Spitfire against an Fw 190 over France, when after only 10 minutes of thrust and parry in a "g" loaded dogfight we both broke off......Such would be the likely result of this contest"
So, maybe Brown has to give the prize to the British fighter but a couple of pages back he has them fighting to a draw. I don't think that is faint praise considering the handling the British fighter possessed. Then add in the fact that if you wanted to go somewhere you needed a Mustang.
Juha - I agree everything you said but wonder about the last comment. Fear of the unknown actual capability of a 'thing' like German airpower over the beaches could have paralyzed the Command Decision for May/June 1944. Had 8th AF not clearly defeated the LuftWaffe over Germany and experienced the same losses during and after Big Week with no pause because the P-47/P-38 combination been insufficient, then I believe that the Invasion Planners would have assigned a huge risk to the naval (and total logistic chain) assets from the LW.
You think Goering and Hitler would let their air force sit idly by whilst the German army did all the fighting? The truth is the Luftwaffe suffered heavy losses on offensive and defensive operations, from the start of the war to the end. As the strength of the allies increased Luftwaffe losses soared.
of course not! and i agree they took heavy losses on offensive and defensive ops. they took it hard during the BoB and even in poland. what i was saying is prior to the 51, if a LW pilot took damage to his ac he could disengage and be free and clear of all threats by flying a mile away from the bombers. that is providing all the bombers were past the protective radius of the fighter escort. that pilot could prudently break off thinking he could get refueled, rearmed, his plane patched up and be ready for another sortie that afternoon or the next day. once the 51 was in the skies...that luxury was gone. he was a target anywhere in the skies or on the ground. he could have been chased back to his field...straffed while he landed...or after.
The Mustang certainly turned the tide for the 8th AF bomber campaign. But the tide of war had turned long before.
I also agree with you. the tide had turned against germany....but the war at that time was not a definate loss. think of the resources they would have had if they had been able to keep allies from daylight bombing. you couldnt amass the number of bombers at night as you could during the daylight. so men and machines of all kinds could have been sent from the core of germany east or where ever. with out harassment the LW would have been able to maintain machines and fuel. the soviets would have faced a more formidable army....and who knows they may have been able to stop them as the length of the front shrunk.
ps. Eric Brown says he does not have the same experience as many other pilots or authors, such as the good harmony of the controls, light stick force of the elevator with power, and excellent instantaneous maneuverability...
Eric Brown is a controversial character, even on this forum. He was found from his early days to have a great talent for flying and especially for landing aircraft on ships. He holds the record for the number of types flown and the number of take offs and landings on carriers. To me, he should be viewed as a Lionel Messi, a Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali or a Jack Nicklaus. Messi could talk all day about running with the ball and even write a book about it, but he has always been able to run with a ball as fast as most people can run. I doubt if Messi could teach anyone to do it like he does unless they were almost as good to start with. Clay could have written a book on avoiding a punch which I would read with interest but never try to put in practice, and the same goes for the same guy as Ali's "rope a dope". Just walk in the ring and take boxings biggest punchers biggest punches is only a sound tactic if you are actually Mohammed Ali. I cannot hit a golf ball straight when I want to so what use in Jack telling me how to fade left or right?
Brown flew more aircraft types than any other pilot, when he discusses light or heavy controls remember he flew heavy bombers and gliders. I am not a pilot but just from reading about aviation there is a huge difference in a planes "feel" between recovering from a dive or rolling at high speed to those coming in to land especially on a carrier close to stall speed. I have absolutely no doubt that whatever Eric Brown wrote he could logically defend as correct in his opinion, but some people view the world in a different way.
I have absolutely no knowledge on this apart from what I have read on these forums. Climb performance is the most difficult to pin down simply because it was the easiest to influence. Just filling with enough fuel for the test and omitting ammunition is a huge weight difference as is adding armour plates and pylons. Taking the best and worst cases in these two scenarios possibly explains why Brown used "overstated".In the main topic, he claims later model Corsair's climb rate is overstated.
I read what he said about the AU-1 in another book, it was the last produced Corsair for US, but the flight performance was poor due to the added lot of armor plates and pylons, and Brown caught it well.
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I have absolutely no knowledge on this apart from what I have read on these forums. Climb performance is the most difficult to pin down simply because it was the easiest to influence. Just filling with enough fuel for the test and omitting ammunition is a huge weight difference as is adding armour plates and pylons. Taking the best and worst cases in these two scenarios possibly explains why Brown used "overstated".
I also could not find what he mentioned about the rate of climbs for later model Corsairs, including AU-1.
I think his opinion on speed, maneuverability, and climb in the air combat of F4U can be doubtable.
Brown mentiones this in his book Wings of the Navy; he didn't rate the AU-1 very highly.
"The speed for maximum climb rate was 125 knots (232 km/h) from sea level up to 21,000 ft (6,400 m)..." Climb was certainly impressive, with that immense 13 ft 4 in (4.06 m) diameter Hamilton Standard propeller pulling the aircraft up like a high speed lift, 10,000 ft (3,050 m) being passed in 4 - 6 minutes and 20,000 ft (6,095 m)in 9.6 minutes. Above 21,000 ft (6,400 m) climb speed was reduced three kts per 2,000 ft, but the two-stage two-speed supercharger ensured good climbing capability well above 30,000 ft (9,145 m).
This is certainly contrary to the perception that he wasn't impressed by its climb rate.
Here's what he had to say in short about the Corsair in general:
"There can be no doubt the Corsair was one of the fastest naval aircraft of WW2 and few of its pilots criticised it from a performance standpoint. It had a good range, adequate firepower, an extremely reliable engine and it could absorb a lot of punishment. However, in my view it left much to be desired as a fighter from the viewpoint of manoeuvrability and this same shortcoming was apparent in the dive bombing role in which it saw widespread use. Finally it had a very dreary track record as a deck-landing aircraft; many were the pilots that lauded its high speed performance but decried its lack of affinity with a carrier deck."
Brown explained that his role in assessing the Corsair during the war was during diving trials, where Marine Corps pilots had experiences where fabric was tearing from the elevators during high speed dives. Never a good thing.
Here's his introduction to the Corsair chapter:
"Undeniably unique in appearance among singe-seat fighters of its era, with its reverse-gulled wing, mighty Double Wasp engine and immense windmill of a propeller combining to impart an impression of brute strength, Chance Vought's F4U Corsair was not a comely aeroplane by any yardstick. It was anathema to some pilots and shear ambrosia to others. There were those pilots that acclaimed it as the best single-seat fighter of any nation to emerge from WW2; there were pilots that pronounced it a vicious killer equally dispassionate towards killing its pilot as his opponent. Indeed, few fighters were capable of arounsing within those that flew them such extremes of passion as was the Corsair. Of course, in any shortlist drawn up of the most famous - as distinct from the most efficacious - fighters of WW2, this odd looking warplane will inevitably rank among the classics near the top. Yet, to my mind, the Corsair achieved such a level of distinction despite itself, but then I was never to be numbered among its more ardent admirers; those that apparently assessed the Corsair solely on the basis of its more glamorous attributes and disregarded the penalties that these invoked."
I think you need to read the book before making such an assumption. He's pretty clear about its faults and although he does admit he wasn't a fan, he wasn't for good reason. It doesn't appear that he flew later models of the fighter variant before the AU-1, but the faults of deck handling and poor stall characteristics were generic to the breed, not just the early ones, so his assessment is not inaccurate in this regard. This after testing the AU-1:
"It was the handling of the AU-1 that served to heighten my distaste for the Corsair, however, for if its ancetor had proffered some unendearing characteristics, they had been multiplied in the descendant. The AU-1 had developed some highly undesirable directional stability and control characteristics, such as requiring almost full right rudder on a deck-landing approach, thus rendering baulked landing the most hazardous of operations. It also displayed a directional oscillation in diving wiht external stores, thus setting up wing rocking and seriously affecting the aiming accuracy."
View attachment 468981Corsair iii by Grant Newman, on Flickr
but it was not a suitable aircraft to evaluate Corsair's flight performance.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Brown wasn't evaluating the AU-1's combat performance for his reader's of his book's benefit when he wrote what he did, he was giving an indication of what it's like to fly the aircraft. Let's not forget that; what he writes in his books are his opinions based on his flying experiences and give us, the laymen a bit of an understanding of what these machines were like to fly and fight in, again, based on his experiences. Here is a bit from the introduction of Wings of the Navy;.
When he says a plane was problematic because it needed full rudder it doesn't automatically mean it was a problem for him but would be for a newly trained pilot attempting his first landing.
When reading a quote from Brown your opinion changes if you are in these different groups.
so his opinions are frequently what are his opinion for the average or the new pilot not for himself.