swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,987
- Jun 25, 2013
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.... insane,
but, not insane ...
".... What's a worse perversion of history?" .. you ask.
My Answer: The perversion of allowing the infinity larger legacy of Bolshevik monstrosities to be 'accepted' , 'forgiven', 'understood' by our society: schools, media, churches, governments.
PBS runs a Five Part Documentary around the rise of Nazism - a political, tribal, racial perversion that survived for 15 years.
PBS does NOT run documentaries called "The Bolsheviks: Terrorists to Totalitarians - the Bloody Road Still Unfolds.
If I had lived in Berlin and saw ANTIFA running amok in 30's - 1933 .... I would want them STOPPED. Period.
And Germany was not the only country being torn apart from the inside out.From a 1930's historical context and not engaging in the political aspect, there were 8 left-wing parties, 19 right-wing parties with 8 central parties. Add to that, the 14 non-affiliated parties plus the 20 unions and organizations and it becomes clear that the system in Germany was a hot mess and a confusing "mine field" for the average German citizen.
I also wouldn't agree that the P-51 arrived late in the war. Mustang Mk Is and P-51As were coming into service just after the USA entered the war. You can construct a fantasy scenario of P-51 airframes being shipped to UK and fitted with RR two stage Merlins in summer 1942. This would have reduced the number of Spitfire IXs and Mustang 1s available to the RAF and the number of P-51As and A-36s available to the USA, all four types were needed and used. Having some Merlin P-51s in mid 1942 may have been an advantage as far as a strategic bombing campaign but the USA in mid 1942 didn't have suitable bombers or the "infrastructure" to prosecute the campaign. Between the Dieppe raid in 1942 when the USA first used the B-17 in numbers and the RAF used the Allison Mustang and Spitfire IX and the start of "big week" in 1944 huge changes were made, not only to the aircraft but also to the knowledge, strategy and execution of raids. The P-51 didn't arrive late, the most photogenic of the stable, the P-51D arrived when it arrived but sometimes is given credit for what its forebears, the P-51B/C achieved in bomber escort missions. It is pilots who score victories, some flew P-47s from start to finish, some flew only P-38s some only P-51s and some flew the whole lot and others too, in Europe and elsewhere.The one myth mentioned about the P51 pilots shooting down a lot of enemy aircraft because it arrived late in the war when the German pilots were not well trained- isn't that one true?
Agreed.And Germany was not the only country being torn apart from the inside out.
All true, but you must admit that German pilot quality had declined by December 1943 when the Merlin Mustangs got to England. And the 8th AF could have used those Mustangs in August and October on the disastrous Schweinfurt raids.I also wouldn't agree that the P-51 arrived late in the war. Mustang Mk Is and P-51As were coming into service just after the USA entered the war. You can construct a fantasy scenario of P-51 airframes being shipped to UK and fitted with RR two stage Merlins in summer 1942. This would have reduced the number of Spitfire IXs and Mustang 1s available to the RAF and the number of P-51As and A-36s available to the USA, all four types were needed and used. Having some Merlin P-51s in mid 1942 may have been an advantage as far as a strategic bombing campaign but the USA in mid 1942 didn't have suitable bombers or the "infrastructure" to prosecute the campaign. Between the Dieppe raid in 1942 when the USA first used the B-17 in numbers and the RAF used the Allison Mustang and Spitfire IX and the start of "big week" in 1944 huge changes were made, not only to the aircraft but also to the knowledge, strategy and execution of raids. The P-51 didn't arrive late, the most photogenic of the stable, the P-51D arrived when it arrived but sometimes is given credit for what its forebears, the P-51B/C achieved in bomber escort missions. It is pilots who score victories, some flew P-47s from start to finish, some flew only P-38s some only P-51s and some flew the whole lot and others too, in Europe and elsewhere.
A topic others know much better than I. P-51B and Cs started to arrive in August 1943, but one of their first jobs was as advanced trainers for partially trained pilots arriving from USA. To have them available in squadron service in large numbers needs a whole shift in the time line, not only for the P-51 but also for everyone involved. Many were still wedded to the doctrine of the bomber getting through. Many airfields were under construction. You also need the longer range P-47s and P-38s with pilots. The Schweinfurt raids exposed more than just a need for escorts, the whole planning and execution of a raid needed to be looked at as regards weather recon and timing which was much more difficult than people imagined and ploughing on regardless when things start to go FUBAR isn't heroic, it kills lots of people for little result.All true, but you must admit that German pilot quality had declined by December 1943 when the Merlin Mustangs got to England. And the 8th AF could have used those Mustangs in August and October on the disastrous Schweinfurt raids.
It's possible the pilot regained control after being shot.
A .45 caliber round is no joke and since the other IJA pilots were shooting crewmen in the silk, you can be sure I'd be doing the same thing.
In regards to pistols versus pilots - this is how armed conflicts between enemy pilots started during WWI.
The one myth mentioned about the P51 pilots shooting down a lot of enemy aircraft because it arrived late in the war when the German pilots were not well trained- isn't that one true?
It's not hard to hit a large object with a pistol and pilots have been known to recover from serious impacts and return to base - Saburo Sakai is a good (and well documented) example of recovering from being struck in the head by a bullet.It's certainly theoretically possible. The Japanese records indicate it wasn't a 'kill', of course. The most likely sequence of events, in my rational mind, is something like this: (1) Jap approaches slow with cockpit open to determine if he is alive or dead. (2) Lt. Baggett "plays dead" (he admits this in his statements) (3) The Jap pilot decides he is dead and quits looking directly at him. (4) At this moment, Lt. Baggett pulls his .45 and fires but the projectiles go "over" (probably). (5) The jap pilot is unaware that anything has happened due to the engine and wind noise, and has already decided on his next move, which is a dive, perhaps because he thought he saw other enemy aircraft or other parachutists (6) He dives away, completely unaware he was just involved in the creation of a legend.
Just superb design. Engine can be jettisoned to optimise gliding ability.Having watched "Dunkirk", when a Spitfire hits the red on the fuel gauge it still has an hour left in "movie" combat, but didn't really need the engine running anyway.
I never knew that!Just superb design. Engine can be jettisoned to optimise gliding ability.
Much of what is conventionally held "history" on the attack on Pearl Harbor is flat out propaganda, which isInspired by posts on the December 7, 1941 thread.
This is for the dumb or flat out wrong things we have heard about aviation or history in general.
I'm all ears.Much of what is conventionally held "history" on the attack on Pearl Harbor is flat out propaganda, which is
thereby written into all the books by "parroting" authors.
Airacorbra guy, please allow me to frame a response that is thought out, I'll get back to you.thanksI'm all ears.
You're correct about Mustangs arriving earlier in the war than 1943 if you are including Allison powered A36's. But I remember reading somewhere that during "Big Week" the last week in February 1944 the 8th AF would send out around 800 escort fighters with something like 600 P47s, 100 P38s and 100 P51's. So wouldn't it would seem that well into 1944 it was still largely a Thunderbolt show? And the Mustang only dominating in numbers for the last year in Europe when Luftwaffe pilots were largely kids being sent out with minimal time in their respective ME 109 or FW 190?I also wouldn't agree that the P-51 arrived late in the war. Mustang Mk Is and P-51As were coming into service just after the USA entered the war. You can construct a fantasy scenario of P-51 airframes being shipped to UK and fitted with RR two stage Merlins in summer 1942. This would have reduced the number of Spitfire IXs and Mustang 1s available to the RAF and the number of P-51As and A-36s available to the USA, all four types were needed and used. Having some Merlin P-51s in mid 1942 may have been an advantage as far as a strategic bombing campaign but the USA in mid 1942 didn't have suitable bombers or the "infrastructure" to prosecute the campaign. Between the Dieppe raid in 1942 when the USA first used the B-17 in numbers and the RAF used the Allison Mustang and Spitfire IX and the start of "big week" in 1944 huge changes were made, not only to the aircraft but also to the knowledge, strategy and execution of raids. The P-51 didn't arrive late, the most photogenic of the stable, the P-51D arrived when it arrived but sometimes is given credit for what its forebears, the P-51B/C achieved in bomber escort missions. It is pilots who score victories, some flew P-47s from start to finish, some flew only P-38s some only P-51s and some flew the whole lot and others too, in Europe and elsewhere.
As you may be aware, I love refuting "parroted" information.Airacorbra guy, please allow me to frame a response that is thought out, I'll get back to you.thanks
I'm very new here but have been around, and into aviation since the time I was four or five. I have researched the attack since myAs you may be aware, I love refuting "parroted" information.