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mikewint
Captain
As far a home defense is concerned, I cannot think of a more valid reason to have/own a weapon even in Oz. Those outside the law will always have weapons even in Jolly Olde Anti-gun England. I don't live in either place but police response times are highly variable even in cities. The home invasion can occur in much less than a minute. While doors and deadbolts are steel almost invariably the door jam remains unreinforced wood. A common tactic here is for the invaders to use a large sledge-hammer to shatter the jam generally in one blow and they are inside. Good luck getting to a phone and calling for help. Baseball/cricket bats are good weapons but against a gun or multiple intruders, again, good luck. Now remove all of this out of the city and into the hinterlands and "WHO YOU GONNA CALL???" I've been to some small villages in England with a single constable, hello Mayberry and Barney Fife. The outback in Oz? you've got a long wait for help. Here in Arkansas, my town of Lakeview has a part-time cop whose main job is running radar traps on the hill into town. The county generally has 4 deputies till midnight then 2 to cover 587 square miles (1521 square km) and it is worse in other counties. When your need is NOW you've only yourself to rely on.
My first line of home defense are my dogs, i.e., a 90lb(41kg) doberman and a 140lb(64kg) Irish Wolfhound. It is going to take time to disable/kill them. In my nightstand next to the bed is my Keltec PMR-30 with laser sights and a 30-round clip of .22mag hollow points. The .22mag is a nasty little round and the muzzle flash and sound are like a .50cal. Outside the bedroom within easy reach is the 20ga autoloader mentioned above and in another direction a S&W .40cal M&P with a 350 lumen light.
Legal or illegal I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six
My first line of home defense are my dogs, i.e., a 90lb(41kg) doberman and a 140lb(64kg) Irish Wolfhound. It is going to take time to disable/kill them. In my nightstand next to the bed is my Keltec PMR-30 with laser sights and a 30-round clip of .22mag hollow points. The .22mag is a nasty little round and the muzzle flash and sound are like a .50cal. Outside the bedroom within easy reach is the 20ga autoloader mentioned above and in another direction a S&W .40cal M&P with a 350 lumen light.
Legal or illegal I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six
Attachments
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
What infuriates me, is that Drummer Rigby was killed by a pistol and hatchet weilding douchebag (and a car) while horrified onlookers and unarmed police officers watched the ordeal take place. The armed police were several minutes away and responding while he was being murdered.
The Charlie Hebdo attack took place and an unarmed Paris policement begged for his life and was murdered in front of the world.
In these two instances, the assailants used illegal weapons and committed illegal acts in spite of all the laws designed to make a "warm amd fuzzy" world of unicorns and rainbows, where soldiers and policemen are armed with hugs and cookies.
These two examples are not to promote civilian firearm possession, they point out the stupidity of the anti-gun advocates that remove an essential component of law enforcement, especially in a modern world where the value of human life wouldn't buy you a cup of coffee...
The Charlie Hebdo attack took place and an unarmed Paris policement begged for his life and was murdered in front of the world.
In these two instances, the assailants used illegal weapons and committed illegal acts in spite of all the laws designed to make a "warm amd fuzzy" world of unicorns and rainbows, where soldiers and policemen are armed with hugs and cookies.
These two examples are not to promote civilian firearm possession, they point out the stupidity of the anti-gun advocates that remove an essential component of law enforcement, especially in a modern world where the value of human life wouldn't buy you a cup of coffee...
mikewint
Captain
Dave, the irony of the San Bernardino attack is that it occurred in California where the countries strictest gun laws are in effect. The building where the attack occurred was once again a "Gun Free Zone" where the good law-abiding people had no defense whatever.
As John Locke stated, self-defense is the first law of nature. Each person owns his or her own life and no other person has a right to take that life. Those who would attempt to stop you from defending yourself, are attacking the very right from which all other rights are derived, protection of one's own life.
As John Locke stated, self-defense is the first law of nature. Each person owns his or her own life and no other person has a right to take that life. Those who would attempt to stop you from defending yourself, are attacking the very right from which all other rights are derived, protection of one's own life.
If this discussion turns political it will be shut down...
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Very depressing that people feel the need to have a gun for self/home defence. I have relatives in Vancouver Canada and Phoenix USA and its shocking to see the differences in attitudes. In Canada they barely bothered locking the door just a Yale lock or a deadbolt and maybe an alarm. In Phoenix entering the estate meant being checked by a security guard and no entry without permission from the householder and then entering the house it was like trying to break into a bank vault.
At home I dont know anyone who has had their house burgled or invaded only a friend who had his Ducati stolen from his garage and a neighbour who had her car stolen when she left the keys by the front door and a thief stole the keys by hooking them with a fishing rod through the letter box. I have a friend in the Netherlands who doesnt even bother locking his apartment door or his car working on the principle if someone wants to break in they wont cause any damage and will soon realise he doesnt have anything worth stealing.
I wonder if fear of crime rather than actual crime is causing a rise in gun ownership for self defence.
At home I dont know anyone who has had their house burgled or invaded only a friend who had his Ducati stolen from his garage and a neighbour who had her car stolen when she left the keys by the front door and a thief stole the keys by hooking them with a fishing rod through the letter box. I have a friend in the Netherlands who doesnt even bother locking his apartment door or his car working on the principle if someone wants to break in they wont cause any damage and will soon realise he doesnt have anything worth stealing.
I wonder if fear of crime rather than actual crime is causing a rise in gun ownership for self defence.
Well we had 8 police involved shootings in Denver the last 2 weeks, never happened before, the influx of illegals/gang members/ drug dealers(I-70 is a major drug route) people here are carrying more and more and buying for home protection. So yes it's probably fear of crime but also that it's usually to late after the fact when police show up. This is in no way a knock on law enforcement, just the way it is.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Unfortunately drugs will never be beaten whilst people have the money or commit a crime to get the money to snort, inject or smoke there drug of choice. Stop the consumers paying and the drug dealers, gangs and a lot of criminal activity disappears almost overnight. Till the demand is stopped someone will always find a way to make or import and sell, the history of Alchohol Prohibition was unfortunately never studied by lawmakers around the world.
parsifal
Colonel
Its not the actual threat posed by criminal behaviour thats the problem. Its the fear and dislocation that the crimes generate that is the problem. People want to feel safe, and the apparent ease that terrorists (and criminals) penetrate our security systems makes people look at that and sometimes feel they need to do something themselves. owning a gun is one of those reactions.
There are two things that hold me back on owning a gun (and perhaps Im over thinking this). The first is that the real threat from harm from a criminal source, in my country at least is extremely low. You are 40000 times more likely to get hurt from a medical emergency than you are from a violent crime of any description. In the US you are about 5 times more likely to suffer from violent crime at some stage. Most of the western group of nations that have opted for tight gun ownership lawsare in a similar boat to us. Gun ownership does not make the society safer. Its a right, and it may, in the future be a necessity.
The second is that all this terrorism stuff is designed to make us uneasy, designed to attack the lifestyle we hold dear. What better way than to force us into a lockdown mentality in which we dont trust each other, increasingly we kill each other, and make the job of law enforcement much more dangerous and difficult?
There are two things that hold me back on owning a gun (and perhaps Im over thinking this). The first is that the real threat from harm from a criminal source, in my country at least is extremely low. You are 40000 times more likely to get hurt from a medical emergency than you are from a violent crime of any description. In the US you are about 5 times more likely to suffer from violent crime at some stage. Most of the western group of nations that have opted for tight gun ownership lawsare in a similar boat to us. Gun ownership does not make the society safer. Its a right, and it may, in the future be a necessity.
The second is that all this terrorism stuff is designed to make us uneasy, designed to attack the lifestyle we hold dear. What better way than to force us into a lockdown mentality in which we dont trust each other, increasingly we kill each other, and make the job of law enforcement much more dangerous and difficult?
"I'm pretty handy with a Bo Staff"
I'm sorry I couldn't resist any longer...
I'm sorry I couldn't resist any longer...
mikewint
Captain
Jim, okey, you bring your stick...I'll stick to my Bat'leth
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I'm game...bring it!
I have quite a few edged weapons, but I prefer the balance and agility of a Gladius Iberius
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
But what about the pointed stick ................ or attacking with a bannana ?
parsifal
Colonel
so, you are a middle class free citizen living in the middle ages, say 1250 in Europe somewhere. What would be your weapon of choice for home protection? Your opponent could be anybody.....
What weapon do you leave behind your front door?
What weapon do you leave behind your front door?
mikewint
Captain
A lot would depending on your station in life. The lower classes made do with farm implements and tools. With sufficient skill a man could make a very effective wooden bow and arrows or at the very least a stout quarter-staff. Those more well-to-do had steel/iron muscle-powered weapons
Bladed Hand Weapons
Swords
Arming Swords
Broad Swords
Falchions
Long Sword
Daggers Knives
Anelaces
Stilettos
Poingnards
Rondels
Blunt Hand Weapons
Clubs and Maces
Morningstars
Holy Water Sprinklers
Flails
War Hammers
Horsemen's Picks
Polearms
Quarterstaves
Spears
Winged Spears
Lances
Pikes
Corseques
Fauchards
Glaives
Guisarmes
Halberds
Danish Axes
Sparths
Bardiches
Pollaxes
Mauls
Becs de Corbin
Ranged Weapons.
Franciscas
Javelins
Bows, Longbows, Crossbows
Arbalests
Bladed Hand Weapons
Swords
Arming Swords
Broad Swords
Falchions
Long Sword
Daggers Knives
Anelaces
Stilettos
Poingnards
Rondels
Blunt Hand Weapons
Clubs and Maces
Morningstars
Holy Water Sprinklers
Flails
War Hammers
Horsemen's Picks
Polearms
Quarterstaves
Spears
Winged Spears
Lances
Pikes
Corseques
Fauchards
Glaives
Guisarmes
Halberds
Danish Axes
Sparths
Bardiches
Pollaxes
Mauls
Becs de Corbin
Ranged Weapons.
Franciscas
Javelins
Bows, Longbows, Crossbows
Arbalests
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Wildcat
Major
I'd chain up my dragon in the front yard. 
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
you then probably do not have the money to purchase a sword or mace....so its going to be your hatchet, axe, pitchfork, or hoe ( if she isn't in your bed )
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I think most people underestimate the lethality of a hoe, especially if she's in a bad mood...
parsifal
Colonel
in England at least it was illegal for the non-military classes to carry swords within built up areas such as london. There were variations to this throughout Europe, in Germany, for example, as a generalisation the carrying of personal blades was more or less universal.
Exceptions in England were made to the carrying of spears, bows and certain pole weapons. clubs, axes and similar blunted weapons were also not subject to this rule.
So if I were a merchant, or other middle class in the middle ages living in England in one of the larger urban centres like London I would probably settle on a small axe and maybe a knife of some description. both legal, able to be carried in most situations, not requiring a lot of specialised training easily stored and virtually indestructible.
Exceptions in England were made to the carrying of spears, bows and certain pole weapons. clubs, axes and similar blunted weapons were also not subject to this rule.
So if I were a merchant, or other middle class in the middle ages living in England in one of the larger urban centres like London I would probably settle on a small axe and maybe a knife of some description. both legal, able to be carried in most situations, not requiring a lot of specialised training easily stored and virtually indestructible.
