futuredogfight
Senior Airman
Are even half the Tomcats gonna be able to get airborne? Seriously, the Isreali pilots have always thrashed the other mid-east pilots.
F-15I vs F-14A
- Thread starter bia9x
- Start date
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Just a note. The German use of the word is different from the Russian "Commie" use.
And back to the actual topic at hand...
I don't believe the Iranian F-14s can even get into the air. They lack spare parts, and there is a ban on selling them spare parts. If they could get airborne, I doubt they could use the AIM-54 missile. From reports that I have read, at most 2 are airworthy, and they can only be used as early airborne warning, due to their lack of ability to fire the AIM-54 missile.
futuredogfight
Senior Airman
True!
vinnye
Senior Airman
I don't know how good the original poster's English is?
I assume not very, so it is possible that his "pidgeon English" has caused some confusion as to his meaning, and some offence at the choice of vocabulary.
I hope that this is the case and not the poster being provocative / insulting on purpose!
Anyway, I like the F14, one of my favourite aircraft, but I would expect an F15 to have the upper hand in a contest between them.
Especially given the situation in Iran, where lack of spares and upgrades would dramatically reduce the aircrafts effectiveness.
I assume not very, so it is possible that his "pidgeon English" has caused some confusion as to his meaning, and some offence at the choice of vocabulary.
I hope that this is the case and not the poster being provocative / insulting on purpose!
Anyway, I like the F14, one of my favourite aircraft, but I would expect an F15 to have the upper hand in a contest between them.
Especially given the situation in Iran, where lack of spares and upgrades would dramatically reduce the aircrafts effectiveness.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Not even worth discussion given the Iranian provenance, given lack of training, lack of spares, lack of maintenance and technical obsolescence. F-15I wins every day of the week in the hands of Isreal. Even in the merge.
I would suggest that instead of focusing upon Iran armchair fighting Isreal, that you just grant Iran's President his wish to be launched into space like the Resus monkey last week. Hopefully his outcome will be similar. Dead and still only have attained the accomplishment of a unwilling brave monkey.
I would suggest that instead of focusing upon Iran armchair fighting Isreal, that you just grant Iran's President his wish to be launched into space like the Resus monkey last week. Hopefully his outcome will be similar. Dead and still only have attained the accomplishment of a unwilling brave monkey.
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
If I recall correctly (and recall get's tougher every day) the Grumman contract support personnel made some minor modifications to the Iranian F-14 fleet before they exited the country with the Shah's passing, that purportedly will make it difficult for them to be effective.
With respect to claims of technology pirating; if you guys haven't come across it before, there are a lot of stories around the world that were fostered in the absence of information. Many of these might elicit a strong gut negative reaction to West world allies, but it's not necessarily malicious. It's just ignorance. Look at the cockamamie ideas that spring up from time to time here. We tend to work them out in fruitful give and take that is probably rare in some benighted corners of our planet. Also, the good ole' USA and Commonwealth nations have their own history of mythology and misinformation for which we should always be alert to recognize and reject. Like many of you, I have seen examples of early (thru about 1990) bloc hardware while on active duty. Until very recently, it seems to me western hardware, in most respects appears comparatively like alien technology come on Earth in comparison. AFAIK, most of the reported advantages attributed to aircraft like the Mig-21 were of the 'simpler is better' variety. The Mig-21 did, perhaps in some respects, inspire some of the emphasis on aircraft like the F-16 and F-17, which were part of the move to lower cost day fighters, but in their actual incarnations it seems to me there is little to compare them technologically. Western counterparts evolved well beyond the capabilities of the simple Mig 21 because their designs owed essentially nothing to the very limited Russian product.
With respect to claims of technology pirating; if you guys haven't come across it before, there are a lot of stories around the world that were fostered in the absence of information. Many of these might elicit a strong gut negative reaction to West world allies, but it's not necessarily malicious. It's just ignorance. Look at the cockamamie ideas that spring up from time to time here. We tend to work them out in fruitful give and take that is probably rare in some benighted corners of our planet. Also, the good ole' USA and Commonwealth nations have their own history of mythology and misinformation for which we should always be alert to recognize and reject. Like many of you, I have seen examples of early (thru about 1990) bloc hardware while on active duty. Until very recently, it seems to me western hardware, in most respects appears comparatively like alien technology come on Earth in comparison. AFAIK, most of the reported advantages attributed to aircraft like the Mig-21 were of the 'simpler is better' variety. The Mig-21 did, perhaps in some respects, inspire some of the emphasis on aircraft like the F-16 and F-17, which were part of the move to lower cost day fighters, but in their actual incarnations it seems to me there is little to compare them technologically. Western counterparts evolved well beyond the capabilities of the simple Mig 21 because their designs owed essentially nothing to the very limited Russian product.
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oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
Well we shot down a lot of F-4 /8- 105/111 and a multitude of different types of ground attack, not to mention thousands of helicopters, sad American blood to replace the entire line of their F-100s. By those there F-teen steal technology from Russia, I mean they stole Mig 21 to complete the F-16, they stole Mig 25 to complete F-15
Probably not as many F-4, F-8, F-100 and F-105 as you may believe. A simple check of Wikipedia may provide you with much needed insight into what actually happened 50 years ago.
with respect to the F-8 and the first hand accounts of my contemporaries:
"Despite the "last gunfighter" moniker, the F-8s achieved only four victories with their cannon; the remainder were accomplished with AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles,[14] partly due to the propensity of the 20 mm (.79 in) Colt Mk 12 cannons' feeding mechanism to jam under G-loading during high-speed dogfighting maneuvers.[15] Between June and July 1966, during 12 engagements over North Vietnam, Crusaders shot down four MiG-17s for two losses.[16] The Crusader would be credited with the best kill ratio of any American type in the Vietnam War, 19:3.[3] Of the 19 aircraft shot down during aerial combat, 16 were MiG-17s and three were MiG-21s.[14] But the NVAF claimed 11 F-8s were shot down, however U.S. records only indicate 3 F-8s lost in aerial combat, all to MiG-17 cannon fire in 1966.[17][18][19] A total of 170 F-8 Crusaders would be lost to all causes during the war.[20]"
The F-4 wasn't quite as effective as the F-8: again wiki: 40 USN (7) USAF (33) F-4s were lost to Migs while US F-4s claimed 147 North Vietnamese fighters.
2,294 F-100s were built and 242 lost to all causes in Vietnam. 10 % of total production isn't quite the entire line of aircraft. An F-100 scored the first USAF aerial victory of the war.
Even the F-105 is credited with 27 victories over Vietnamese aircraft vs 17 lost in air to air combat. which is what I think you were talking about.
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Guys, I don't want to be a smartass and also don't want to interfere with the moderators, but my suggestion Would be to be a little easy on the guy. He's from Vietnam, a country where large parts of the Internet is blocked out, strong censorship from the government and contact with western people probably is extremely limited. He has a language very different from English or other western languages, so if his language seems akward, these things I mentioned might be the cause of it. Also the history taught there is probably very different from what we learn and I don't think we could blame this individual for that.
For me I welcome people from asia as much as any other. I hope he can learn a lot about Worldwar 2 and the Western world and also hope he'll become a valuable member of this nice little international society.
So welcome bia9x, let your stay on the forum here be a pleasant one.
For me I welcome people from asia as much as any other. I hope he can learn a lot about Worldwar 2 and the Western world and also hope he'll become a valuable member of this nice little international society.
So welcome bia9x, let your stay on the forum here be a pleasant one.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
You're not interfering with the Mods, Marcel.
You are correct Marcel.
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
If it was a face to face talking, 100% sure your answer was a knife in your throat!
If you want to live, never call an Iranian "Arab" or "Comrade"!
Very simple reason: both are outsiders and invaders!
Never will happen! Israel is about size of Iran's smallest village, both in terms of Population and total Area, compared to Iran's population and area.
WRONG!!!
This one is right!
NOPE!
NO! For 1001 reasons!
---
To moderators team:
sorry for bringing this up, but there were several posts needed to be answered in proper way! and some wrong information to be corrected.
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
you might change your mind reading topics about Iranian pilots. and it seems that we have members with enough knowledge about VVS. not sure about 2 other ones.
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
You actually write the Country's name in your text.
There is no pride in blood of innocent young men and women fighting for their country. Never disrespect your enemy, dead or live, they had someone waiting them...Well we shot down a lot of F-4 /8- 105/111 and a multitude of different types of ground attack, not to mention thousands of helicopters, sad American blood to replace the entire line of their F-100s. By those there F-teen steal technology from Russia, I mean they stole Mig 21 to complete the F-16, they stole Mig 25 to complete F-15
Depends on what you call a legend??? I prefer term "Myth", for several reasons, it fits more than legend.
Tomcat and eagle were designed for different roles! How the heck you don't know this???
Plus that, The version that you mention, is much more advanced in time and technology from IRIAF Tomcats! How the heck you don't know this???
100% sure you're a political officer! I've met hundreds of you while served in Army!
one of the reasons I claim you're a PO:
you posted some basic info about planes, meanwhile most of users here have spent their youth days Flying / repairing those things. You are talking with Specialists, not a bunch of school children! and even if not specialist, they know enough, or even more than me or you, about planes.
Hey Artesh, not much point in trying to answer 8 year old posts. Quite some of them don't attend the forum anymore. The topic starter hasn't been here since 2013.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Still, I like ARTESH's replies. I sometimes forget to check the date of a post myself.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Given equally-skilled pilots in both planes, my money's on the F-15.
Yes, I know it's an old thread.
Yes, I know it's an old thread.
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
This kind of topics remember me of the regime's propaganda against Pahlavi era! more specific, you guessed it right, ARMY. that's why i was burning! I apologize If I said any inappropriate words.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Being that my experiences in Iran were entirely under the Shah's regime, I must sometimes remind myself that the change of regime didn't mean the folks got dumb, it just meant that now outside the country I was out of touch with the currents of thought, and have a diet of American propaganda in most of our news sources.
Reminders like yours are useful and if you got a little heated, it's cool, because we each only understand our own experiences.
I didn't get the "Army" reference because when my dad was a contractor at Mehrabad, it was IIAF and not Army that he worked with. I don't know how that plays into propaganda, but if you want to expand on that I'm all ears. If need be to avoid forum rules about politics, feel free to PM me.
