F-5 influence on Mig-29

[Nodeo-Franvier]

I have read somewhere that captured F-5 spurred development of Mig-23ML and Mig-29.
What design feature of F-5 influenced Mig-29?

 

[GrauGeist]

Several F-5Es were captured by the North Vietnamese and given to the Soviets. I beleive one F-5E was received from Etheopia, too.
The Soviets studied the technology behind it's construction to determine why it was able to best any aircraft that the Soviet Union had at the time (and performed well againstn the F-14 and F-15 in OPFOR contests).
The F-5 was fast, lightweight, highly maneuverable and simple in terms of it's construction, all in a smaller airframe.

So there wasn't any one single feature that the Soviets focused on, it was the entire concept that inspired their design process.

 

[The Basket]

The F-5 would have been in concept very similar to the MiG-21 so the idea is not new.

Performance wise the info would have been in the public domain so the Soviets should have had a rough guide to it's top speed.

So to me it would be about metals electrics engines and so on not necessarily copying but taking good ideas which may work better.

There is a huge problem. The F-5 would have been a pretty aged 2nd rate fighter by this time so if you are copying then you are copying obsolescent tech. That is not going to help you in the long term.

So maybe the F-5 was a reference guide or maybe a cheap way for R and D. But performance wise not really relevant.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

The F-5 would have been in concept very similar to the MiG-21 so the idea is not new.

Performance wise the info would have been in the public domain so the Soviets should have had a rough guide to it's top speed.

So to me it would be about metals electrics engines and so on not necessarily copying but taking good ideas which may work better.

There is a huge problem. The F-5 would have been a pretty aged 2nd rate fighter by this time so if you are copying then you are copying obsolescent tech. That is not going to help you in the long term.

So maybe the F-5 was a reference guide or maybe a cheap way for R and D. But performance wise not really relevant.

At that time the F-5 actually outperform both Mig-21 and Mig-23M in dogfight,despite the former higher thrust to weigh ratio and the latter being much more advanced.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Does anyone know how the cockpit of Mig-23,Mig-29 and F-5 Compared?

 

[tomo pauk]

MiG-29 was more of a 'small F-14 with fixed wings' aerodynamically-wise (engines wide set so the fuselage generates a lot of the fift), rather than 'let's copy features from F-5'.
It was too late for F-5 to 'borrow' the features to the MiG-23, either.

 

[The Basket]

The Soviets did make a bolt by bolt copy of the F-5 and called it the MiG-28.

So yeah more than influenced I would say.

Dogfighting don't matter. Go say the F-5 could out dogfight a Flogger don't mean nothing.

 

[macharvard]

The Soviets did make a bolt by bolt copy of the F-5 and called it the MiG-28.

Never heard of an even numbered fighter project from Mikoyan and that's probably why the gang that made Tom Cruise's 'Top Gun', created the ficticious aircraft for the movie.

 

[The Basket]

MiG-27 was a bomber.
Tu 128 was a fighter.

So not cast in stone.

There is some debate whether the MiG-28 could do a 4G negative dive.

I can get pix of the MiG wearing a red star so that plenty evidence to me.

 

[GrauGeist]

There is a huge problem. The F-5 would have been a pretty aged 2nd rate fighter by this time so if you are copying then you are copying obsolescent tech. That is not going to help you in the long term.

The F-5E was introduced in the 70's as a second version of the original F-5, so it had revisions that made it very current on the world stage.
The MiG-29 was introduced in the early 80's, so there is certainly an overlap.

 

[macharvard]

Basket, I have been a fan of the early jet MiGs (up to the -21) for decades and I have never seen anything that indicates the existence of the MiG-28 as a real aircraft. If you can give me a lead on where you got the information about the 'bolt by bolt' copy, I would be very grateful. If I missed it along the way, I look forward to a new research project. I am getting tired of reading mystery novels during this pandemic.

cheers

 

[tomo pauk]

Instead of debunking myths, we're to create them here now?

 

[The Basket]

I am surprised you never heard of the MiG-28. Next you be telling me never heard of the Firefox. It had thought controlled weapon system.

 

[macharvard]

I am surprised you never heard of the MiG-28. Next you be telling me never heard of the Firefox. It had thought controlled weapon system.

Okay chum. April 1 is a few months away. Try again then.

 

[GrauGeist]

Here's a great view of a "MiG-28" or better known in the real world as an OPFOR F-5E...

 

[Graeme]

The early version of the MiG 23...

 

[The Basket]

I no like when stuff like this is said.

Coz the basis is the Soviets can't design diddly squat unless they copying.

Ok they did copy and we know that but give them a modicum of credit!

Same with the Zero. There might actually be someone somewhere in ussr who knew what they were doing.

 

[J_P_C]

Does anyone know how the cockpit of Mig-23,Mig-29 and F-5 Compared?

what you mean? - somehow all analog cokpits are similar especially for persons who has limited knowledge of the topic, you will find there the same gauges and controls, but in details they are all very different . For your question "is F-5 father of Mig-23 or 29 - answer is simply NO"

 

[davparlr]

Here's a great view of a "MiG-28" or better known in the real world as an OPFOR F-5E...

View attachment 606009

Great picture. Taxiing behind a T-38 I was always amaze of how those gear struts could get up into that wing (the wheels themself went into the fuselage). That's a lot cooler paint scheme than the last T-38 scheme.

 

[Zipper730]

From what I remember, the MiG-21 was a little bit faster and had a slight climb-rate advantage, but the F-5E was easier to fly, rolled quicker, and was able to keep turning longer because of the leading-edge root extension (which was enlarged from the F-5A) and the leading-edge devices it had.