F4U in Europe

[BlackSheep]

Some survived, landing in snow, bushes or trees and in at least one case barbed wire.

I remember reading a story, if memory serves me correctly it was in a book about the great African Hunters and was relayed by Karamojo Bell, a great elephant hunter, incredible shot who often used a .276 caliber rifle to take down his prey, and WW1 fighter pilot in Africa. He spoke of an Irishman who rode down a fighter in I guess would be a flat spin, the lightweight of the plane allowed a slow enough descent that he survived with only one affliction. The centrifugal forces were presumed to have caused blood vessels in his eyes to burst leaving his blue eyes surrounded by a blood red color for the rest of his life and it was said that he particularly loved to display his demonic appearance after a few pints. (IIRC the story was in one of Peter Capstick's "Death in the…." Series)

 

[BlackSheep]

Raoul Lufbery.

I just read an account of this knight of the air and found something interesting about his death. A few days before his last aerial duel, Lufbery was asked what would he do in case of fire and he stated that jumping meant sure death and he would certainly stay with his plane, perhaps, fanning the flames away from him by side slipping through the air. On the fateful day, a tracer hit his fuel tank and within seconds turned his plane into a flying torch. Shortly after, he was seen jumping to his death.

Apparently, when his fuel tank was hit, he also lost the thumb on his flying hand, perhaps, he couldn't attempt the side-slipping maneuvers he had talked about due to injury?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I just read an account of this knight of the air and found something interesting about his death. A few days before his last aerial duel, Lufbery was asked what would he do in case of fire and he stated that jumping meant sure death and he would certainly stay with his plane, perhaps, fanning the flames away from him by side slipping through the air. On the fateful day, a tracer hit his fuel tank and within seconds turned his plane into a flying torch. Shortly after, he was seen jumping to his death.

Apparently, when his fuel tank was hit, he also lost the thumb on his flying hand, perhaps, he couldn't attempt the side-slipping maneuvers he had talked about due to injury?

I didn't know about the pre-mortem conversation you mention, thanks for adding more to the story. I think I'll do some surfing looking up more about his life. I know he was a gadabout, and served in the FFL and also as a mechanic before flying for the French and then the Americans. I need to refresh my knowledge on him, one of the first somewhat American aces.

Matter of fact, now I'm hankering to read more about all the Great War aces. Thanks for the cue!

 

[nuuumannn]

Part of the problem was that parachutes were in their infancy and little was known about them and particularly in making them small enough that they could be successfully carried aboard an aeroplane. Aircrew aboard balloons and airships had parachutes, but they were big and heavy. The British Guardian Angel parachute was attached too the underside of the aeroplane, for example. Much experimentation was done in Britain and the first RFC airman to parachute from an aeroplane did so under controlled conditions in January 1917. It was done by New Zealander Clive Collett, who was a fighter ace wounded in combat and employed by the Experimental Aircraft Station at Orfordness, who, incidentally was the first RFC pilot to achieve ace status in the Sopwith Camel.

A bit of info here:

Clive Collett's pioneering parachute jump | WW100 New Zealand

ww100.govt.nz

 

[BlackSheep]

I didn't know about the pre-mortem conversation you mention, thanks for adding more to the story. I think I'll do some surfing looking up more about his life. I know he was a gadabout, and served in the FFL and also as a mechanic before flying for the French and then the Americans. I need to refresh my knowledge on him, one of the first somewhat American aces.

Matter of fact, now I'm hankering to read more about all the Great War aces. Thanks for the cue!

If you've ever seen the movie Fly Boys, no it isn't about the latest Boy Band, its loosely about the Lafayette Escadrille, the "cool dude" with the lion is based on the real life Lufbery. Decent to good movie, I'd watch again if I ever saw it playing.
A good quick read on Lufbery can be found at

Death of an Air Ace, 1918

Eye witness account of the fiery death of air ace Raoul Lufbery during a dogfight.

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Decent to good movie, I'd watch again if I ever saw it playing

The movie lost me when EVERY German fighter was a multicolored Fokker Dr.1 piloted by a villainous stereotype.
Similar to "Red Tails", except instead of Fokkers, substitute Me 262's armed with airsoft guns

 

[SaparotRob]

The reason they did that (officially) was so the audience could tell the sides apart.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yeah, that was one of my major peeves about the movie.

In real life, there would have been more DR.VIIs than DR.Is and I am certain the audience would have had no trouble telling the "bad guys" from the good guys, as the Allied types were mostly the same color and the German/Austrian aircraft were very colorful (even without the lozenge camo).

The big black Iron Cross all over their aircraft was also a fairly easy thing to spot, too...

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Treating your perspective audience as idiots probably isn't a good production move.
You have to assume that a large percentage of the ticket buying audience going to see a movie about WWI aircraft will have an interest in WWI aircraft, and just may spot flagrant inaccuracies. The people that don't know, also probably don't care, they just came to see James Franco

 

[SaparotRob]

I had gone out with the same woman for years. During that time I had the same, unique looking car. Every day she would walk right by it when looking for us.
Strange as it is to us, most of the audience would mix the planes up without visual aids. Besides, don't you know that in the skies over WW I Europe , the Germans wore red?

 

[Clayton Magnet]

most of the audience would mix them up without visual aids

Perhaps they will understand its the "bad guy" when he starts shooting at the "good guy". That's not enough?
I understand your point, I just think they ruin promising movies when they bow to the lowest common denominator

 

[BlackSheep]

The movie lost me when EVERY German fighter was a multicolored Fokker Dr.1 piloted by a villainous stereotype.
Similar to "Red Tails", except instead of Fokkers, substitute Me 262's armed with airsoft guns

Lol, and the big baddie in the Fokker looks exactly like the big baddie in the 262, down to the evil sneer!

 

[Clayton Magnet]

I'm pretty sure the evil German uttered something like "show no mercy!" before diving on and peppering the brave American with what looks like a handful of pebbles from his 4x 30mm cannons

Edit: Yep.

 

[GrauGeist]

Strange as it is to us, most of the audience would mix the planes up without visual aids. Besides, don't you know that in the skies over WW I Europe , the Germans wore red?

Actually, very few Imperial German Air Service aircraft were red.

Udet had a red DV.II but his Albatros was all black.
Out of the 12 types Richthofen flew, only four were red (3 Albatros, 1 DR.I).
Shultz's DR.VII was half red, half white.
Monnington's DR.VII was half red, half white.
Büren and Müller's DR.VIIs were also half red, half white along with most of Jasta 18 during summer of 1918.

But over all, the German and Austrian aircraft were a wide variety of colors: yellows, whites, blues, greens, blacks, purples and even pink.
Then add the stripes, chevron, lines, the Bavarian blue/white diamond motiff, Monnington's macabre green/gray camo (on his Albatros) and much, much more.

There is so much more that would literally take days to list.

The nose art in US aircraft during WWII couldn't hold a candle to the German aircraft of WWI.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Side note, Raymond Collishaw and his "Black Flight" comes to mind.
The Canadian unit of the RNAS flew black painted Sopwith Triplanes, each one named in white lettering, like "Black Death" and "Black Maria".
Good thing they weren't included in the movie, people would have been much to confused.

 

[fubar57]

Somehow this F4U thread entered WWI soooooooo

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The movie lost me when EVERY German fighter was a multicolored Fokker Dr.1 piloted by a villainous stereotype.
Similar to "Red Tails", except instead of Fokkers, substitute Me 262's armed with airsoft guns

Agreed, plus the ridiculous unrealistic flying combat scenes.

 

[special ed]

I am reminded of Chuck Yeager's comment, "The first time I saw a Me 262, I shot it down."

 

[SaparotRob]

Side note, Raymond Collishaw and his "Black Flight" comes to mind.
The Canadian unit of the RNAS flew black painted Sopwith Triplanes, each one named in white lettering, like "Black Death" and "Black Maria".
Good thing they weren't included in the movie, people would have been much to confused.

I built that model when I was in junior high.

 

[SaparotRob]

Somehow this F4U thread entered WWI soooooooo

View attachment 656021​

That'll learn those Limeys! We do know how to operate Corsairs off of carriers!