Favorite concentrated armament package.

[Clay_Allison]

Honestly, I don't know. But then freezing wouldn't be such a problem "up there"?



Sorry, what? vrs? What do you mean, the airflow disturbing the trajectory?
I meant the airflow increasing the cooling of the gun.



D@mn, I can't believe I wrote it that way (my apologies, Galileo)! What I meant is that the bigger bullet will be affected sooner, as I believe it's speed usually is lower to start with.

How come a smaller bullet has more drag? It doesn't have so much "frontal surface", so it should be better?

30-06 and .50 BMG have the same velocity and similar trajectory. In world war II, both pushed their bullet to 2800 fps. At long range the .50 has greater inertia and resistance to windage so it has a flatter and more predictable long range trajectory.

smaller bullets also normally don't have as good a ballistic coefficient because they tend to be shorter per unit of width.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I don't know of any Russian Twin-Engine fighter. If they made their own Destroyer (РАЗРУШИТЕЛЬ?) aircraft with a pair of Mikulin or Klimov engines, it would certainly warrant consideration.

Pe-3 was a twin engined heavy fighter with 2 x Kilmov 1,260hp engines.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Pe-3 was a twin engined heavy fighter with 2 x Kilmov 1,260hp engines.

Thanks for letting me know about that. doesn't seem to have had an awesome armament package though. Six Berezin UB or Four 20mm ShVAK in that plane would be pretty scary though.

 

[GrauGeist]

Pe-3 was a twin engined heavy fighter with 2 x Kilmov 1,260hp engines.

They didn't make very many of the Pe-3s though, only about a thousand?

 

[vikingBerserker]

Yup, which by Russian standards is not a whole lot. They also used them as night fighters, which I did not know.

 

[GrauGeist]

Interesting, looks like the Pe-3 had some real potential there...wonder why they never took advantage of it.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Interesting, looks like the Pe-3 had some real potential there...wonder why they never took advantage of it.

probably wasn't worth the cost of two engines per AC.

 

[fibus]

Remember the p 47 had 8 brownings and no one complained about to little firepower. The .5 outranged the Japanese 20mm because that gun fired with an unlocked breech and was an inferior weapon. The German early 20's also used an unlocked breech and was at best only comparable the multiple .303 brownings used by the RAF.
For its time the .5 was the best gun but the best gun of the war was the developed belt fed Hispano 20mm.
OK, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Remember the p 47 had 8 brownings and no one complained about to little firepower. The .5 outranged the Japanese 20mm because that gun fired with an unlocked breech and was an inferior weapon. The German early 20's also used an unlocked breech and was at best only comparable the multiple .303 brownings used by the RAF.
For its time the .5 was the best gun but the best gun of the war was the developed belt fed Hispano 20mm.
OK, maybe I'm wrong.

the Soviet equivalent to the M2 .50, the 12.7mm Berezin UB was more powerful than the M2 and half as heavy with a better rate of fire. The German 13.1 mm MG 131 was similar in its advantages. Furthermore, the MG 151/20 was probably the best of the 20mm cannons.

 

[Civettone]

Clay, here's a Russian prototype: the Polikarpov TIS(MA).

It had two 20mm ShVAK cannons but the wing centre sections carried two 45mm cannons! In the rear also another MG. It was powered by two Mikulin AM-38 engines, as used by the Il-2. But the plan was to change to the new AM-39 engines which would have given it a speed of 650 kmh. Crashed in September 1944 and cancelled.

TIS-A (MA), Heavy escort fighter

(post nr 1,000 woehoew!)

Kris

 

[Shortround6]

the Soviet equivalent to the M2 .50, the 12.7mm Berezin UB was more powerful than the M2 and half as heavy with a better rate of fire. The German 13.1 mm MG 131 was similar in its advantages. Furthermore, the MG 151/20 was probably the best of the 20mm cannons.

The German MG 131 also had a few disadvantages-like a lighter projectile and a lower MV.

The German MG 151/20 aso used lighter shells at a lower velocity. It may also have been more difficult to make.

They both came late in the war but the Berezin B-20 and Hispano MK V may have been the best 20mm guns of the war.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The German MG 131 also had a few disadvantages-like a lighter projectile and a lower MV.

The German MG 151/20 aso used lighter shells at a lower velocity. It may also have been more difficult to make.

They both came late in the war but the Berezin B-20 and Hispano MK V may have been the best 20mm guns of the war.

The Berezin B-20 was definitely IMO the best cannon to see service in the war. I didn't mention it because it came so late in the process.

It's a shame we didn't build the Berezin UB under license, chambered for 50 BMG (leaving the M2 .50 for ground and sea forces.)

 

[Vincenzo]

A question, it's certain the use of B-20 in world war II?

 

[Clay_Allison]

A question, it's certain the use of B-20 in world war II?

Pretty certain it was used through 1945. It was invented in 1944 and basically was a Berezin UB with a different barrel, so existing lines could be converted without any delays.

 

[Civettone]

The La-7 had it. But not many were delivered.


Kris

 

[Civettone]

And nobody reacted to my Polikarpov ... 2 20mm and 2 45mm guns. THAT is impressive!

Though the 45mm guns were in the wing roots...

Kris

 

[Vincenzo]

The La-7 had it. But not many were delivered.


Kris

Afaik not from start of La-7 production

 

[Civettone]

Afaik not from start of La-7 production

True. Only 368 3-cannon La-7s were delivered to combat units before the end of the war, compared with more than 3,000 of the 2-cannon variety.


Kris

 

[vanir]

I have colour plates for B-20 armed La-7s with the 2nd Guards at the Battle of Berlin, 156IAP at Danzig and 17IAP in Manchuria during WW2, but these are rarities.
The Beresin when up-barrelled to 20mm weighed roughly half that of the late production Hispano and had performance similar to the MG151. The ShVAK according to Tony Williams is about as good as the improved Hispano or MG151.

three B-20 in the nose had to be a real good centreline armament, that's tough. Aside from the La-7 I think the Yak-3P used three, whilst the Yak-9P had two in the upper nose with an NS-23 firing through the hub IIRC...or it might be the other way around.

 

[Vincenzo]

So the B-20 was actual weapon on La-7 maybe from spring '45?
For Yak 3P info on use in WW II?, afaik 9P it's post war.