Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft

Discussion in 'Weapons Systems Tech.' started by Fokker D21, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Fokker D21

    Fokker D21 Member

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    After playing numerous flight simulators I noticed that bigger guns on aircraft usually are not that much more powerful modelled than smaller ones. So I decided to read more about the subject. The best book I read about this is: Flying Guns of World War II. One of the most interesting things in this book is a formula for calculating gun strength.

    The authors base their formula on momentum instead of kinetic and chemical energy because kinetic energy overstates the speed of the projectile and chemical energy is to complex to be compared with kinetic energy.

    I took the challenge to make my own formula. See my website:

    My question to the other forum members is:
    1) Do you think my and/or Williams/Gustin formula approaches historical accuracy?
    2) What is your favorite gun armament of WWII and why?
     
  2. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

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    Hi Fokker,

    >See my website: Back to my homepage

    Looks good! :)

    I'd like to see a table comparing the individual guns, if possible sorted by efficiency. I'd also include the mass of rounds plus drums/belts into the efficiency comparison, as that will give a better impression of the entire weapons system.

    For my comparison, I have simply used total energy. The additional factors you introduce are entirely arbitary - a solid round piercing through aircraft skind wastes a proportion of its energy just like an explosive round, and I don't think it's possible to tell generically which type of loss is higher.

    Oh, and I noticed you used the term "effective range" - what's your definition of that term?

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  3. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    Favorite gun armament of WWII aircraft..

    Depends on the mission and theater.

    If your hunting 4 engine bombers... gotta have cannons.
    If your going after fighters... .50 is my choice
    If I'm shredding Japanese aircraft, I may even want 10 or 12 .303 brownings..
     
  4. joy17782

    joy17782 Member

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    comiso i have too agree with you there on your picks , maybe a few more 303 lol !!!!!!
     
  5. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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  6. toffigd

    toffigd Member

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    "If I'm shredding Japanese aircraft, I may even want 10 or 12 .303 brownings"

    Where would you put theme? You'd need at least biplane Spitfire Mk.I with double A wing - 16x.303! :D
     
  7. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    Like the P-38 armament, a 20mm and four .50s in the nose.

    TO
     
  8. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the Whirlwind, 4 x 20mm in the nose, nasty
     
  9. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    Hurricane XII
    Canadian-built variant. Single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber. Powered by a 1,300 hp (969 kW) Packard Merlin 29. Initially armed with 12 0.303 inch (7.7 mm) machine guns, but this was later changed to four 20 mm cannon


    Hawker Hurricane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  10. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

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    Gimme a Sturmbock Fw 190 A-8/R2; I'll take 2 30mm Mk 108's, 2 20mm MG 151/20's, and two MG 17's any day.
     
  11. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Same here Stich, unless I was going up top to handle P-51's, then lose the 30mms and stay with the 4x20mm and 2xMG17s...
     
  12. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    Tony`s formula is one approach to a very complex problem, and he readily admits that it has weaknesses; IMHO the greatest weakness is that it bases the projectiles 'destructive power' (for the lack of a better word) on Kinetic energy, and ie. HE shells only get their KE multiplied to represent Chemical Energy, and the two has little to do with each other. To illustrate with an example, a hand granade kills you all the same wheter it explodes sitting on the ground, flying in the air or hits you in the stomach after thrown and then explodes. There is no connection.

    But as said, it`s an extremely complex subject, depending on where the projectile hits (ie. if the bullet passes through the wingtip, the same amount of KE will be transferred, ie. the one needed to penetrate through, wheter we speak of a high velocity or low velocity round of similiar calibre), what it hits etc.

    I fear its simply impossible to give back the effect with a single number.

    Late La 7 and Yak 3 with the pair or triple 20mm cannons. Its an excellent, light, compact cannon with high rate of fire and high velocity, the 20mm is simply the best all around armament and all of it is centered in the nose.

    Its a sexy combination of a neat and deadly package. Of course there were some monstrosities, but I prefer the reasonable package.
     
  13. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    How about 6x50 cal.s and 2x 30mm cannons.
     
  14. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Why shred a Japanese airplane with .30's?

    Go with the 10 .50's!!!!!

    Plus you can also shred Japanese ships with the 50 cals.
     
  15. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    i'll agree with that much better to be sat behind that lot than in front looking down the barrels
     
  16. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    Ok... I know the Hurricaine was outfitted with up to 12 .303's..

    which fighter had 10 .50's?
     
  17. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    B25 Gunships.

    Plus the P47 had 8 .50's.
     
  18. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    Didn't someone on the forum have a siggy that said: "Eight .50's kick ass !"

    Fighter to fighter, eight .50's should do the trick. If your going after
    bombers, cannon would help. Depends on whose bombers you're after.

    Charles
     
  19. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    yeahh..

    i was thinking fighters.. i didnt want to get into gunships

    I'd like to know if any fighter had 10 .50s
     
  20. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    Also the P-61.

    4 20mm
    4 .50s

    TO
     
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