FIRST HELICOPTER AIR-TO-AIR KILL!

Discussion in 'Post-War' started by FLYBOYJ, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    It's a bit long - I heard about this elsewhere - copy right credits shown!



    FREEDOM BIRD
    by Lawrence E. Pence
    Colonel, USAF (Ret)
    For most servicemen who served in Vietnam, the Freedom Bird was that civil airliner
    which took them back to the land of the big PX at the end of their tour. Mine was a bit different
    sort of Freedom Bird.

    In mid-1967, as a junior Air Force Captain, I was detailed to 7th AF Hq in Saigon as an
    Air Technical Intelligence Liason Officer, short name: ATLO (the “I” gets left out, as people look
    strangely at anyone who calls himself an ATILO, thinking he is somehow related to Atilla the
    Hun). My job was to provide 7AF and the air war the best technical intelligence support that
    the Foreign Technology Division of AF Systems Command (my parent org­anization) could
    provide, in whatever area or discipline needed. Also I was to collect such technical
    intelligence as became available. This was a tall order for a young Captain, and this
    assignment provided much excitement, including the Tet Offensive.

    At that time, Operation Rolling Thunder was underway, the bombing of military targets in
    North Vietnam. The weather in NVN was often lousy, making it difficult to find and accurately
    strike the assigned targets, so a radar control system was set up to direct the srike force to their
    targets. This system was installed on a remote, sheer-sided karst mountain just inside Laos on the
    northern Laos/NVN border. The site could be accessed only by helicopter or a tortuous trail
    winding up the near-vertical mountainside, so it was judged to be easily defensible. The
    mountaintop was relatively flat and about 30 acres in size.

    On it was a tiny Hmong village called Phu Pha Ti, a small garrison of Thai and Meo
    mercenaries for defense, a helicopter pad and ops shack for the CIA-owned Air America Airline,
    and the radar site, which was manned by "sheep-dipped" US Air Force enlisted men in civilian
    clothes. Both the US and NVN paid lip service to the fiction that Laos was a neutral country, and
    no foreign military were stationed there, when in reality we had a couple of hundred people spread
    over several sites, and NVN had thousands on the Ho Chi Minh trail in eastern Laos. This
    partic­ular site was called Lima (L for Laos) Site 85. The fighter-bomber crews called it Channel
    97 (the radar frequency), and all aircrews called it North Station, since it was the furthest north
    facility in "friendly" territory. Anywhere north of North Station was bad guy land.

    The Channel 97 radar system was an old SAC precision bomb scoring radar which
    could locate an aircraft to within a few meters at a hundred miles. In this application, the
    strike force would fly out from Lima Site 85 a given distance on a given radial, and the site
    operators would tell the strike leader precisely when to release his bomb load. It was
    surprisingly accurate, and allowed the strikes to be run at night or in bad weather. This
    capability was badly hurting the North Vietnamese war effort, so they decided to take out Lima
    Site 85.

    Because of the difficulty of mounting a ground assault on Lima Site 85, and its remote
    location, an air strike was planned. Believe it or not, the NVNAF chose biplanes as their "strike
    bombers!" This has to be the only combat use of biplanes since the 1930's. The aircraft used
    were Antonov designed AN-2 general purpose 'workhorse" biplanes with a single 1000hp radial
    piston engine and about one ton payload. Actually, once you get past the obvious "Snoopy and the
    Red Baron" image, the AN-2 was not a bad choice for this mission. Its biggest disadvantage is, like
    all biplanes, it is slow. The Russians use the An-2 for a multitude of things, such as medevac,
    parachute training, flying school bus, crop dusting, and so on. An AN-2 just recently flew over the
    North Pole. In fact, if you measure success of an aircraft design by the criteria of number
    produced and length of time in series production, you could say that the AN-2 is the most
    successful aircraft design in the history of aviation!

    The NVNAF fitted out their AN-2 "attack bombers with a 12 shot 57mm folding fin aerial rocket pod
    under each lower wing, and 20 250mm mortar rounds with aerial bomb fuses set in vertical tubes let
    into the floor of the aircraft cargo bay. These were dropped through holes cut in the cargo bay floor.
    Simple hinged bomb-bay doors closed these holes in flight. The pilot could salvo his bomb load by
    opening these doors. This was a pretty good munitions load to take out a soft, undefended target
    like a radar site. Altogether, the mission was well planned and equipped and should have been
    successful, but Murphy's Law prevailed.

    A three plane strike force was mounted, with two attack air­craft and one standing off as
    command and radio relay. They knew the radar site was on the mountaintop, but they did not
    have good intelligence as to its precise location, It was well camou­flaged, and could not be seen
    readily from the air. They also did not realize that we had "anti-aircraft artillery" and "air de­fense
    interceptor" forces at the site. Neither did we realize this.

    The AN-2 strike force rolled in on the target, mistook the Air America ops shack for the
    radar site, and proceeded to venti­late it. The aforementioned “anti-aircraft artillery” force- one
    little Thai mercenary about five feet tall and all balls- heard the commotion, ran out on the
    helicopter pad, stood in the path of the attacking aircraft spraying rockets and bombs everywhere,
    and emptied a 27-round clip from his AK-47 into the AN-2, which then crashed and burned. At
    this juncture, the second attack aircraft broke of and turned north towards home.

    The "air defense interceptor" force was an unarmed Air Amer­ica Huey helicopter
    which was by happenstance on the pad at the time, the pilot and flight mechanic having a
    Coke in the ops shack. When holes started appearing in the roof, they ran to their Huey and
    got airborne, not quite believing the sight of two biplanes fleeing north. Then the Huey pilot,
    no slouch in the balls department either, realized that his Huey was faster than the biplanes!
    So he did the only thing a real pilot could do-attack!

    The Huey overtook the AN-2’s a few miles inside North Viet­nam, unknown to the
    AN-2’s as their rearward visibility is nil. The Huey flew over the rearmost AN-2 and the
    helicopter’s down-wash stalled out the upper wing of the AN-2. Suddenly the hapless AN-2 pilot
    found himself sinking like a stone! So he pulled the yoke back in his lap and further reduced his
    forward speed. Mean­while, the Huey flight mechanic, not to be outdone in the macho contest,
    crawled out on the Huey’s skid and, one-handed, emptied his AK-47 into the cockpit area of the
    AN-2, killing or wounding the pilot and copilot. At this point, the AN-2 went into a flat spin and
    crashed into a moutainside, but did not burn.

    It should come as no surprise that the Air America pilot and flight mechanic found
    themselves in a heap of trouble with the State Department REMF’s in Vientiane. (REMF is an
    acronym. The first three words are Rear, Echelon, and Mother.) In spite of the striped-pants
    cookie-pushers' discomfort at (horrors!) an inter­national incident (or perhaps, partly because of
    it) these guys were heroes to everybody in the theatre who didn't wear puce panties and talk with
    a lisp. They accomplished a couple of firsts: (1) The first and only combat shootdown of a biplane
    by a helicopter, and (2) The first known CIA air-to-air victory. Not bad for a couple of spooks.

    Communication with Headquarters was very good in Vietnam, and I learned of this
    incident within an hour or so of its happening, although I had no details. But the prospect of
    access to a North Vietnamese aircraft of any sort was very attractive to an intell type, so I grabbed
    my flyaway kit and headed for Udorn AFB in northern Thailand, where I knew I could get
    transport to the crash site from the Air Rescue and Recovery Service (ARRS), the Jolly Green
    Giants. Sure enough, the next morning we headed for bad guy land with a flight of three Jolly
    Green Giants. The State Department geniuses had decided to cover their ample butts by having the
    remains of the AN-2 airlifted down to Vientiane to put on display to an outraged world press, thus
    proving that North Vietnam had violated Laotian neutrality by sending armed aircraft against a
    peaceful civil airline facility. Yawn. The Air Force went along with it because it provided good
    cover for our intell­igence operation. Of course, when State found out that I had gone in without
    saying Mother-may-I to them, they were really hot. But by then I had already gotten the goods we
    wanted, and what could they do to me? Fire me and send me to Vietnam?

    We found the crashed AN-2 a few miles inside NVN. There were already some Meo
    mercenaries there led by a CIA field type, whose mission was to bag the crew's bodies and check
    to see if they were Russians. They weren't. The jungle and rough terrain precluded landing, so
    we went in by jungle penetrator, a cable-mounted weighted affair somewhat like a large plumb
    bob. I would have liked to parachute in because a behind-the-lines jump is considered a combat
    jump, opposed or not, but the jungle and rough terrain would have made that very dangerous. I
    may be a little crazy- all parachutists are- but I'm not stupid. With me went a couple of PS's-
    pararescue specialists. These men are elite young tigers who regularly risk their lives to save
    downed aircrews. They are universally and deservedly admired and respected. The PS's function
    was to rig a sling on the AN-2 so it could be lifted out, and to look after me. I was very glad they
    were there.

    I was delighted to find the crashed AN-2 had the piece of equipment aboard that I had
    hoped to find, a brand new undamaged IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) electronic "black box".
    An IFF ~ a coded signal when interrogated by a friendly radar, thus identifying itself as a friendly.
    All combat aircraft have an IFF, and I had felt certain that the AN-2 would have been fitted with it
    for this mission. We had never before gotten our hands on one in undamaged condition. With this,
    we could "reverse engineer" a system which could reliably locate the small, sleek, elusive MiG-21's
    before they could sneak up on our strike air­craft. And we did just that, greatly improving the RED
    CROWN warning system we had at that time. This capability saved a good many crews and
    aircraft during the later years of that miserable war. I am very proud to have had a hand in this
    effort.

    After rigging the sling on the AN-2, and finishing my intell collection, we tried to lift it
    out, but it was too heavy for the Jolly Green helo. (We sent in an Army Chinook heavy-lift
    helo the next day to lift it down to Vientiane.) All this activity took several hours. Suddenly
    we got a call from the Jollys that an RS57 had been shot down somewhere north and had
    strung bailed-out crew members along a twenty mile path. An all-out rescue effort was
    required and our helicopters were being pulled off our mission immediately, without even time
    to pick us up. They would be back to get us when they could. Suddenly, what had been a
    relatively low risk in-and-out mission took on a whole different aspect. I knew from good
    intell that there were NVN Army elements in the vicinity, and they would no doubt be
    directed to find and destroy the crashed AN-2. All the stooging around with noisy helicopters
    we had done that morning, plus voluminous radio comms, could not have failed to alert them.
    We were four Ameri­cans, who knew not ten words of Umong between us, and about a
    dozen Meo mercenaries, none of whom spoke English. Our arms consisted of three -38
    revolvers, my Colt 1911 .45 automatic, and the Meos' ragtag lot of Ml's, Ml4's, and '03
    Springfields. We had very little ammo, no water, no rations, no flares or smoke grenades, not
    even a compass. We did have short range ground-to-air radios, and a promise to return for us, but
    who knew when that would be. Not a good situation.

    After a hasty conference, we decided to remain at the crash site until an hour or so before
    dark, and then move off and find a defensible place to spend the night, if necessary. So we
    waited. Late that afternoon, we heard a helicopter and got a call that the big rescue operation was
    completed, and we should saddle up for extraction. I can't begin to describe how relieved we were
    to see that big beautiful Freedom Bird flying toward us. Our Freedom Bird picked us up with no
    problem, and we were back at Udorn in time for Happy Hour. No ARRS crewman ever bought his
    own drink at any club in 'Nam. I can assure you none did that night.

    As a postscript, Lima Site 85 was overrun by ground troops about a month after the
    bombing attempt, and all US personnel were killed or captured. The comm guys who heard their
    last mess­ages said it was a pitiful situation as the site team reported the attackers' progress at
    getting at them in their cave bunker. The official version of what happened is that North
    Vietnamese troops climbed the sheer sides of the mountain with ropes and pitons to attack the
    site. I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now. The attack had all the earmarks of a
    Spetsnaz operation, probably insertion by a HALO parachute team, but un­less the Russians admit
    it we will probably never know.

    Of interest, the History Channel in their Missions of CIA series, did a one hour
    documentary on the Lima Site 85 incident which I saw a few months ago. It showed footage of
    the AN-2 in Vientiane, and discussed the ground assault (the "official" version). All in all, they did a
    pretty good job with it, espec­ially considering that it was over thirty years ago. They got some
    things wrong, and some they never knew about, but they weren't there at the time. I was.

    © HOME FRONT PRESS
    http://nationalcapitolsquadron.com
    A monthly publication of the American Air Power Heritage
    Flying Museum's National Capitol Squadron , 2001.
     
  2. me262

    me262 Member

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    wow, that was neat!!!!
     
  3. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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  4. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Very interesting. The AN-2 is one humungous biplane. Until you see one up close, you can't believe the size of it for a single engine biplane. Brave guys on the Huey! Real brave!

    As an aside, what he called PS guys are not called PJs, or Pararescue Jumpers. I worked with some of those guys in the AF and I can tell you, they are hard core!

    Great story, Joe!
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    We had a messed up An-2 at our camp in Iraq. After looking at it I was amazed the thing would fly at all.
     
  6. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    It's really amazing to watch it take off and land too. Quite amazing STOL capabilities for an airplane of it's size.
     
  7. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

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    I'd like to see one one day. Great story, FJ.:thumbleft:
     
  8. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Nice story FBJ, those guys had some guts!
     
  9. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Thanks Guys - This could be a movie
     
  10. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    I heard something about this before, awhile ago.... Great story....
     
  11. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I did not have my camara this weekend but there is one in my wifes home town about 2 minutes from my inlaws house. I dont know if it is in flying condition but I saw it sitting there today.
     
  12. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Here are a few shots of the CAFs AN-2 Colt, dubbed "Big Panda". I still remember the first time I saw it, I thought it was some kind of joke. I didn't think a biplane that big with only one engine could really fly! Info below from warbird alley:

    Nicknames: Annushka ("Little Annie"); Big Ant; Colt (NATO code name; Kukuruznick ("Corn-Eater")

    Specifications (An-2P):
    Engine: One 1,000-hp Shvetsov ASh-62IR radial piston engine
    Weight: Empty 7605 lbs., Max Takeoff 12,125 lbs.
    Wing Span: 59ft. 7.75in.(Upper), 46ft. 8.5in. (Lower).
    Length: 41ft. 9.5in.
    Height: 13ft. 1.5in.
    Performance:
    Maximum Speed at 5,700 ft: 160 mph
    Economy Cruising Speed: 115 mph
    Ceiling: 14,425 ft.
    Range: 560 miles with 1,100-pound payload
    Armament: None

    Number Built: 20,000+
     

    Attached Files:

  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Nice shots Eric! Where is that thing hangared?
     
  14. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Thanks, Joe. It's the Upland Wing of the CAF. They are based at Cable Airport. They are also the ones that have the Martlett that frequents our museum. The recently had a reunion for YO-3A pilots! Few people know about the YO-3.

    The website for the 3rd Pursuit Squadron of the CAF is at:
    http://www.3rdpursuit.com/
     
  15. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    WOW YO-3 "silent bird." Some of the old timers at Lockheed used to talk about that thing!

    Thanks for the info - we had some polite words with them at Gullespi. One of their pilots didin't understand "airport closed for airshow practice" and decided to take off whlie we were flying over the field at about 1000' agl @ 250 kts..... :rolleyes:
     
  16. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Yo-3 which aircraft was that?
     
  17. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    It was an observation plane used in Vietnam that carried infrared sensors and was very quiet. It used a wooden prop and is one of the few (Maybe only) airplane to actually use a muffler! You can get a pretty good history about the YO-3 here:
    http://www.yo-3a.com/pages/3/page3.html?refresh=1121470353961
     
  18. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Okay I know what plane you are talking about now.
     
  19. youpendejo

    youpendejo Banned

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    I dont want to act as I would be cool nor am I anti american but this is such a bullshit story, omg, how could anyone believe this load of ****,
    this is part of another stupid try to overplay the vietnam trauma in telling how the GIs had to improvise against hordes of VC and NVAs, because Washington shitted its troops. Someone watched too much Chuck Norris Movies. OMG!!!!

    It could be that Iraq had the first A-A kill against an Cobra with a Hind, but I have to look for it.
     
  20. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I hate to say it but you're an idiot - this action has been confirmed and verified by those who were there as well as witnesses on both sides. I'll tell you for your first post you've proven the term Sh!t for brains. - Read below [email protected] and I hope you put more thought into your future posts (if any)
     
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