... Force Z had survived the air attack?

SaparotRob said:

Glad you added that itinerary. I was trying to figure out the "from where to, and via where?" part. I was ready to give up and have HMS Repulse pull an "Operation Ten-Go".

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Once you start playing with SEA-DISTANCES.ORG - Distances it becomes a little addictive. With warships, unless you're nuclear-powered and assuming your evaporators are working and you have food, it's always about fuel... how much is left, how far can we go at what speed? Where do we get more? And if pulling into a foreign port, how do we pay for it? Meanwhile HMS Prince of Wales, with her range of 15,600 nmi (at a dead slow 10 knots, per Wikipedia) could sail the 12,000 mni from Singapore straight to Scapa Flow via the Cape of Good Hope without stopping once. Even the 15,100 nmi via Panama Canal could be done non-stop.

After HMS Renown was updated her endurance grew to 6,580 mi, almost double what Repulse was capable of. I don't know where the extra fuel was squeezed in, but ideally we want to do the same as we're updating Repulse's AA suite.

Everything I (half-heartedly) tried gave me flying time. I doubt they were using a Boeing 314's time as a measure. I'm going to spend some time noodlin' around with that link later.

Could Repulse have made it to Perth or had the gas stations along the way already fallen?

SaparotRob said:

Could Repulse have made it to Perth or had the gas stations along the way already fallen?

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I have her going to Freemantle as that's a main port, but Perth is also within reach.

Renown got her range increase primarily from the 1935 major rebuild which included an engineering upgrade - similar to what was done to the QE, Valiant, and Warspite. The Renown was originally built with 42x boilers of the 1915 era technology/efficiency. During the 1935 rebuild the 42x old boilers were replaced with 8x 1935 technology/efficiency boilers. Her rated SHP also increased, from 112,000 to 120,000. Range as built in WWI was around 4000 nm, and about 6600 nm afterward, as mentioned above.

The Repulse never got the upgrade, and her engineering plant was worn out by the start of WWII, hence the reduced range of 3600 vs the original 4000 nm.

British could not build guns and mounts fast enough during the late 30s and 1940-41.
And then they, like many other countries, over speced and fell into the "Best is the enemy of good" trap.

The 5.25 in gun and mount was a poor AA gun set up. It had been biased too much toward surface fire.
The 4.5 in guns used in the Renown, air craft carriers and some Dido's was somewhat better but still a bit slow firing.

The 4in/45 twin was probably a better AA gun and not as bad as thought against destroyers. But it was in short supply. 7 to 10 twin mounts on the Repulse plus four-six quad 2pdrs might have made a big difference.

ThomasP said:

Renown got her range increase primarily from the 1935 major rebuild which included an engineering upgrade - similar to what was done to the QE, Valiant, and Warspite.

The Repulse never got the upgrade, and her engineering plant was worn out by the start of WWII, hence the reduced range of 3600 vs the original 4000 nm.

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Should have sent Renown instead of Repulse, or leave them both in the Atlantic and send KGV with PoW..... or skip the pony show and send some damn tanks and a ferry CV chockablock full of Hurricanes and Spitfires..... sigh.

Thumpalumpacus said:

gone to either Manila (or preferably, in my mind) to Australia, to remain a fleet-in-being. I think PoW and Repulse being afloat may have cast an entirely different complexion over Coral Sea, for instance.

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With their British allies having the only operational battleships in the PTO, Admiral King May have less ammuniton for his anti-British sentiments. So, keep them both at Darwin or Fremantle to defend PNG, and send HMS Indomitable and Hermes (and a combat-experienced replacement for Phillips, ideally Cunningham or Sommerville) to join them.

Under sufficient USN fighter cover even the one dozen Swordfish carried by HMS Hermes could make a good contribution to Coral Sea, especially at night.



Start at 1:26 below. Imagine Force Z with HMS Indomitable and Hermes engaging the IJN's single light carrier and four cruisers. Even better, Force Z takes on the lightly protected invasion force at 1:35. This is where Britain's first contribution to Coral Sea could be made.

ThomasP said:

If I am not mistaken, Force Z was in reality a target of opportunity.

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Agreed. Once the shooting starts Force Z has no mission or purpose beyond escaping to safer shores. And there's no shame in this since in Dec 1941 Percival has over 88,000 troops and 160 combat aircraft. Without hindsight this force would seem sufficient to hold off Japan until more army reinforcements could arrive. There's no place for two isolated battleships in this campaign.