Future of kit building?

[DOUGRD]

wm3456, You sound like you're in the same frame of mind as I am. I never really built any model with the intention of displaying it outside my own home. I did have one or two on display at different times but only because my best friend at the time asked me to display them along with his. But as you said, the fun is in the building and modifying a kit to suit your own preferences. Another thing I really didn't like doing was building for someone else. I've done a couple of those too but I didn't like having deadlines.
I like the scratch building part too. Having been in aircraft maintenance for many years I've been able to use some parts off real aircraft to build my models such as canon plug pins as guns or antennas. (Canon plugs are the electrical connectors used in large aircraft.)

 

[Heinz]

New question for us modellers/modelers is how some of our beloved model companies will weather the financial storm there being not so much surplus cash floating around...

Your thoughts guys.

 

[Catch22]

I think Hasegawa, Tamiya, Revell, and Eduard will certainly survive, as they put out quality things. Airfix, I dunno. The big issue is, we're going to see prices go up. Hasegawa has already raised their prices, so some of their 1/32 planes have gone up $25 in price! But I'm willing to pay that much for one of their models, if I really want it, because I KNOW it will be good. I'm not willing to pay that much for an Airfix model because I don't trust the quality. Airfix may run into a few problems.

 

[Airframes]

I agree with Catch. This is nothing new - in the '80's, when a slump, and recession hit after a boom, all the modelling mags were asking exactly the same question.
OK, prices WILL increase, if only because of the relationship to oil prices and, plastics being a bi-product of the oil business, it is unlikely the prices will fall again, even if oil prices do. However, the advances made in model kit production methods, over the last few years, are huge. The tools are better, last longer, and are much more accurate, with finer tolerances, resulting in more finesse in the finished product and, theoretically, at less cost to produce. This means that, a manufacturer using, for instance, tools made by spark errosion, can expect to get more product from that tool, with less wear, and at less cost in labour and materials, and other overheads such as power. Also, the production methods for the tools themselves are, in theory anyway, less than the cost of traditionally produced moulding tools, due to automated, and computer-controlled methods, such as the aforementioned spark errosion. All in all, this means that the model companies should survive, IF they don't get too greedy, and price themselves out of the market. Revell (Germany) seem to have the right idea; produce interesting kits, that the market desires, of high quality, at realistic prices. Result - greater overall sales, with less effort or market risk, resulting in the same, or more, profit margin than selling more expensive products, to a smaller, and by its very nature, shrinking market. The latter caused by potential buyers saying exactly what we would say - "I'm not paying THAT much!"
So, there will be a lull, possibly a lack of, or a slowing down in the release of, new kits. but, those companies such as Revell AG, who do it right first time, will still be here when the dust settles. Those companies who follow the Airfix route? I doubt it.
The hobby is once again growing, and is massive, otherwise the 'big boys', and the many smaller independants, wouldn't even attempt to release some of the kits now reaching the market, and the 'fringe' sales - magazines, books etc, wouldn't be growing the way it has been doing.
Yes, some companies will go to the wall, but the clever ones will make out all right in the end, if they do things right.
Are you reading this, Mr.'Airfix'? (mutters under his breath as he ambles back to his hole in the ground....!)

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hello Folks,

Pardon the rambling, but here goes:

I also have built models since my age was in the single digits. I even still have some of the planes I built when I was in my late teens. The earlier ones generally didn't survive well. (Propeller blades were usually the first casualties!)

I probably have at least a thousand kits today. Most don't have great value, but I keep accumulating because of good deals and because of nostalgia. I am much more likely to buy a kit of something I built when I was a kid than the latest and greatest. Just like everyone else, I am on a budget, but that isn't the reason I don't buy the $25 1/72 scale Mustang that even comes with all the cockpit instruments. I like the shape of airplanes and to me, a $8 Monogram Mustang does almost as well. The jury is still out on the more recent HobbyBoss line of kits. They look fairly good, but they have so few parts it is almost TOO easy. From what I can tell, there may still be some shape problems, but my sample size is still very small.

I believe the price of kits and accessories NEEDS to be lower to attract the younger crowd. The first attempts at modelling generally look pretty poor. It just doesn't make sense to spend $30 or $40 on a single 1/48 scale plane and mess it up in about 30 minutes. Yes, there was Show-winning quality in that kit, but it will never be seen when the builder is more concerned with reducing the count of glue fingerprints on the model.

Instead of super-detail, perhaps we should think a little more about super-economy kits?

- Ivan.

 

[Airframes]

Good point Ivan. It has been done; Monogram, who you mentioned, more or less started the 'boom' in 1/48th scale kits, producing adequately detailed, fairly accurate models (for the time), at reasonable prices. In fact, by the mid-'70's, many of their kits were considered fantastic!
Other manufacturers have, and still do, produce very good kits at good, affordable prices, in most scales. For example, Academy turn out some relatively inexpensive 1/48th scale kits that rival, if not exceed, the quality of some of the other major manufactureres. About 5 years ago, I bought my first Academy 1/48th kit, the P47D, which had lots of well moulded, detailed 'accessory'parts, including three sets of optional wheels, and it only cost £10, from the shop in a very large, Internationally renowned museum; in model shops at the time, it was a little less. An equivalent kit by other major companies at that time was around £15 to £19 - so, it can be done.
Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, if Revell can produce and market a huge, exceptionally detailed, accurate 1/32nd scale kit of the JU88, retailing below £30 in the UK, why can't other manufacturers bring in their 1/32nd scale fighter-sized kits at similar price ratios? And before anyone cries 'Import costs, duties, and landed cost', I've taken that into account!
Although 'simple' kits, and a spin-off from the pre-assembled and painted models, 21st Century Toys turn out some stunning kits, selling at under £10 in the UK, for a 1/32nd scale fighter! OK, they haven't got all the bells and whistles that a Tamigawa kit might have, but a darn fine model can be produced, and the decal sheet alone would cost almost the price of the kit, if bought as an accessory.
It will be interesting to watch the market, and the reaction of the model manufacturing companies, in the coming year or so!
Terry.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hello Airframes,

It took me a while to figure out how I got to this thread, but obviously I found it again. Pardon another rambling message.

I still buy Monogram 1/48 kits because of the accurate shapes and great prices. I can't seem to find their 1/72 scale stuff any more. I believe that about $5 to $8 is a pretty fair price for a 1/72 scale minimally detailed aircraft and about $10 to $15 is about right for a 1/48 scale aircraft. Any more than that and it gets to be too pricey for a kid to START with. I figure I probably ruined about a half dozen kits at least before completing one without any huge glue marks. It probably took about another 3 or 4 kits before figuring out how to make the seams not look like surgery or necropsy scars. At that rate, you could never really get into the hobby today on a kid's (or cheap parent's) budget.

On top of that, a tube of glue is cheap, but paint is not. I figure I probably have about $150 in Testor's Model Master enamel paints today. That really isn't much when you consider that one bottle goes for about $3.00 or so. I usta buy other paint before figuring out that nothing else has comparable shelf life: By the time you have a good workable set of paints, the older bottles would have settled enough to not be usable. These days, I also mess around with GI Joes and other action figures and started buying acrylic paints because enamels won't work there. Just for a few colors for hair, flesh tone touch ups, and some basic colors, I figure I have about $60 worth of paint. How many kids could afford what I consider to be a useful set of paints?

For my kids, I bought a much cheaper set of acrylic paints (Anita's for the most part) because they have a tendency to use about 10 times as much paint as they really need. Those paints are only about $0.50 to $1 per bottle. Quality isn't anywhere near the Testors stuff, but when you paint on typing paper, you never notice. I generally also buy just medium quality brushes. The expensive stuff is great, but in my experience just doesn't last all that well.

Pity I can't find the 21st Century kits in my area. There are a couple aircraft I would want in 1/32 scale.

- Ivan.

 

[Airframes]

Another good point you've made, Ivan!
You might notice from some of my other posts, that I have a bit of a 'beef' with the company that now own Airfix and Humbrol. I've used Humbrol enamel paints for over 40 years without problem, and, of course, got to know how to 'manipulate' them to my advantage. Now, since the change of manufacturing source, the paints are, quite frankly, terrible, and the price has increased to the equivalent of about $2.60 US. for a 14ml tinlet.
I've tried acrylics, from a number of sources, mainly Tamiya, but I'm still not totally happy with them, and also find them relatively expensive for the small bottles.
I agree with you on all points and, although I understand that costs have risen on all items, across the Globe, I still feel that some manufacturers are 'creaming it'.
The 21st Century kits you mentioned I believe are available direct from the Company, and another member has posted that they are available, mail order, from SBX Models, Ipswich, UK. At a UK cost of less than £10, (approx $17 US), even with shipping, they are worth it. If you haven't seen one built, have a look at my thread on the Gustav build, somewhere here, to see what can be achieved without going overboard with aftermarket bits and pieces.
Nice to 'chat' to you mate, and get yourself entered into the Group Build...the more the merrier!
Terry.

 

[parsifal]

I am no modeller, but over the years I have had a few attempts at it. I mostly enjoy modelling boats. I have to say my favourite medium is wood. I suck at it big time, but creating a hull shape out of a block of wood is something i get a big kick out of.

Recently I was given an RC model of a 12 metre sailing yacht to build. It was much easier than what i am used to, but the final result was also far superior. It actually sails. I havent sailed in years, but I was amazed that this model has exactly the same principles applicable to it as a full sized boat.

 

[Colin1]

In the last 10-20 years, most of the large-scale kits that were available were re-hashed 60s Revell/Frog kits that were simply re-issued with new box art and maybe a new livery and decal scheme if you were lucky but because they were re-hashes, prices could be kept down.

Though good at the time, they were largely innaccurate to varying degrees. Revell led the field in volume of models at 32nd scale and consequently had the larger number of bloopers, the P47 Bubbletop had major flaws, as did the Bf110-C and the Bf109F or G were appalling; you needed serious skills in major model surgery to get those things anywhere near the correct dimensions and shape. There were of course others.

Hasegawa entered the ring in the 70s and alot of their offerings still make presentable models today but even they are now a little long in the tooth.

Today's models are the result of better research and more sophisticated tooling and jigging ie new research and new machinery. Increasingly, kits will include photo-etched parts. All of that needs to be paid for at today's prices and guess who carries the can for that - yep, the customer.

I'm sure profiteering goes on but if they really are targetting the established customer base at the expense of the grass-roots (teenagers-and-below) then with high price vs narrow demograph they are sawing off the branch they're sitting on.

 

[fly boy]

I have been going off and on with makeing models

 

[Heinz]

That is great to know.....


Colin I agree with you completely in terms of the models being more complex then ever before. Thing is though making basic kits like Airfix used to a competitve price really wouldn't cost a lot. Potentional growth with minimal expenditure seems a pretty good deal to me if i was running a company.


For me Hobbyboss are about the cheapest in kits at the moment and are nice but way to basic and easy. There needs to be some challenge to hone skills and learn. Secondly if someone say bought a hobbyboss then went straight to a top notch hasegawa or something they could struggle and then lose interest.

Its a shame more youth programs and the like don't have kit building or even model building. Its certainly a constructive and rewarding which I personally think from watching my current generation seem to lack. its always just been the way, plug in and play...

End of Transmission

 

[bigZ]

Its been a while since I have touched a plastic kit and I was suprised at some of the prices for the 1/72 stuff. I used to scratchbuild planes with plastic sheet(been meaning to start again) then moved into RC.

I did find the other day a box of small plastic kits in what was Eiffel Austins for 50p each. Ideal for my 4 year old son. Heres just a few he couldn't wait hence no paint and some of the stickers wouldn't stick.

 

[Heinz]

Great stuff bigZ!

 

[109ROAMING]

Nice going!

 

[bigZ]

Cheers guys.

An alternative to plastic kits in the future could be 3D printing.

At the moment its quite pricey. But already desktop models are in the pipeline and prices will I hope drop.

I have been messing around with Photogrammetry and CNC for a couple of years and its advanced leaps and bounds.

Imagine downloading pictures of that weird one off prototype that you know will never get produced as a kit. You shove it in a Photogrammetric program and it automatically converts into a 3D Cad model. Press the button and your descktop 3D printer pops out the kit. For those who can't paint or glue it will do this for you(I noticed the die cast models are quite popular).

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hey BigZ,

I also build 3D models for Combat Flight Simulator. I wonder if they would translate to a 3D plastic model. The format is a little weird. It is for Aircraft Factory 99.

I have a couple shots on this page.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/cfs-i-ii-iii/screenshots-2737-6.html

- Ivan.

 

[109ROAMING]

I think maybe another thing that discourages kids to builds models is that its seen as "Uncool"

Last night I watched a video on youtube of a kid going off his nut after losing in some xbox game(This guy was actually nuts,even started punching the ground).It was However VERY amusing to watch this kid take his anger out on the floor but I was left thinking I've never known someone to be so angry over models??? I mean yeah sure it sometimes gets annoying when things don't go your way in modelling but to punch the ground because of it??? wee bit overboard .The thing is though theres heaps of these kids going ape sh!t over games on youtube

I'd post the link here for your utter amusement but I think there were only a few "non swear words" in the clip so yeah Sorry!

 

[Heinz]

I think that kid needs a slap in the face. A game and real emotions should never mix in my opinion.

 

[Maestro]

Last night I watched a video on youtube of a kid going off his nut after losing in some xbox game(This guy was actually nuts,even started punching the ground).It was However VERY amusing to watch this kid take his anger out on the floor but I was left thinking I've never known someone to be so angry over models???

Well, I once got so pissed off against a 1/48 ICM Spitfire that I threw it against the concrete wall... I must say for my own defence that the plane was already pretty screwed up, so doing that only "finished" the job.