Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Nevertheless, if we can't have the DB 601 and the BMW 801 is not ready, then it must be the Jumo for the early Fw 190.They did well with Junkers Jumo 213s. Anything with a Jumo 211 went 30-40mph slower than stuff DB601 powered.
What Japanese engines might've helped in 1939 to mid-1941? Or in 1939-40, if we just focus on the BoB?We know the famous prototype photos and BMW-139 issues. Contact the Japanese get some engines shipped over while also building the BMW-800 series.
What does this mean?When engines are 400+ lbs lighter with radials.
Also have a scaled down bmw800 to have on a trainer that flys like the 190.
Having the early Fw 190 designed around the DB engines means that there is no need for the Japanese engines, IMO.DB Series Development probably increases due to allowing FW-190 to also have a DB option from the outset.
Learn what you can from the Japanese and apply it.
At BOB it would escort "to the cliffs of Dover" and stay over water. The 109s would stay up higher and out of combat until over land thus saving fuel.
EVERYONE is carrying drop tanks. Range is range and I'll take a pilot over FUEL any day of the week.
About the only advantage an early Fw190 might have had over/in addition to the Bf109s would have been the greater range of the Fw190. That said, I still think it would not have made a significant difference if the tactics for use remained unchanged.
Well, there is the BMW 139, but as later comments have pointed out it was not the most reliable engine nor did it have as much development potential as the BMW 801. If the Fw-190 entered service with this engine, then it would've been a shorter wing version given the lower-weight of the BMW 139.What sort of engine would the Fw190 have had in in 1940? The BMW801 was not reliable in 1941.
The Fw 190 with a down-rated BMW 139 (so the worst engine problems are not that likely to happen) might've been a food for a good what-if timeline.Well, there is the BMW 139, but as later comments have pointed out it was not the most reliable engine nor did it have as much development potential as the BMW 801. If the Fw-190 entered service with this engine, then it would've been a shorter wing version given the lower-weight of the BMW 139.
EDIT: The smaller wings could've in turn caused problems with range, an already big problem during the time.
I'm moreso just going off of the simple "small wing = less space for fuel tanks" stereotype, though admittedly I do not know the most about the prototypes fuel tank space in the wings.The Fw 190 with a down-rated BMW 139 (so the worst engine problems are not that likely to happen) might've been a food for a good what-if timeline.
How do you figure that smaller wings would've caused problems with range?
Watch it. The Homare did 2000HP with water methanol injection. The BMW801 did 1700HP without.Focke-Wulf is a Cavalry Officer. He wants his pilots to get home.
2 things the Reich Air Ministry messed up was discontinuing the FW-187, kept building Me-110's-410's.
That's more engines for FW-190….. I know it's not as easy as "hey put 109 style nose on a 190 and see what happens."
Imagine a 190A-4 with a DB in 1942 WITH MW-50.
Simplifying the Air Force will help, it will also increase quality and in a certain expect quantity.
The Dora was an Inline.
You have FW-187s with radials……
Have an alternative the the BMW-800 series as they were heavy and consumed man hours. Introduced in 1941, peaked in 1943/1944. It was a way to get a 1500-1600 HP engine into service despite potential being loss down the line. Remember DBs were doing 1200ish HP at the time.
I always said what if Germany had the Homare with 2K HP at 3K RPM….. now you have a more powerful lighter engine that's going to save fuel. You can 1,000kg in weight easily on the aircraft maybe including fuel.
What about the weight saved? Weren't Japanese using lower octane?Watch it. The Homare did 2000HP with water methanol injection. The BMW801 did 1700HP without.
How would have redesigned the 139 to make it reliable.Let's not add 2+2 and arrive at 5.
BMW 139 was offering, at 4.5km, ~400 HP more than the DB 601A and ~500 HP more than the Jumo 211A. Or about 40-50% more power. And also much more of the exhaust thrust. All without the weight penalty, so there was a lot of reasoning that Tank went for the 139.
Little Tank knew that the BMW 139 would prove to be an unreliable mess.
It was of the same displacement as the BMW 801, ie. 42 liters.
The BMW 801 was a full redesign of the 139, with the 'normal' layout of the crankshaft and bearings, that pushed up both length and weight. It indeed worked, even if that was not a given in 1939-41.
Same as BMW did, arriving at 801.How would have redesigned the 139 to make it reliable.
How would you have redesigned the 801 to make it lighter?
There is a lot to unpack there.They started and stopped multiple programs, what if they don't stop? DB gets more advanced quicker, 800 gets developed quicker, maybe jumo gets better support on jet engines. Maybe the Arado becomes the Jet Bomber in 1940 instead of Hienkel and Dornier. Now you might not need escorts or nearly as many as the Bombers will outrun the fighters. Especially with night bombing, which you do straight away in BoB.
AFAIU BMW was pretty focused on inlines, until the RLM told them to switch to radials. Maybe it was a prudent insurance policy (what if radials pulled clearly ahead and we have all our eggs in the liquid cooled inline basket? Oops..), but it did mean they had some catching up to do.Maybe BMW wasted too much time and energy on their V-12s ( BMW 116 and 117).
Having BMW make a ~40L V12 engine would've probably been a boon to the Luftwaffe.AFAIU BMW was pretty focused on inlines, until the RLM told them to switch to radials. Maybe it was a prudent insurance policy (what if radials pulled clearly ahead and we have all our eggs in the liquid cooled inline basket? Oops..), but it did mean they had some catching up to do.
But yes, an interesting what-if if they continue with their inlines and don't touch radials.
Or DB doesn't pause the 603 project? Could we have a long nosed 190 in 1940/41?